[ros-dev] 7-zip - holy smokes!

Wed Apr 20 07:15:30 CEST 2005

Hi:

This is my first time posting to this list, and I think I have a 
suggestion that may help: An anaconda like front end to handle 
installation could incorperate 7zip and create a transparent layer 
between the installer and the actual data. This layer could uncompress 
the installation medium depending on the type of compression. A 
combination of compressions suited toward certain kinds of files would 
be ideal. The user would never know about or need special tools to 
install ROS and you could keep the very best compression on the actual 
medium to save space.

As for the dialup user, a smaller more compact distribution method is 
obviously going to be needed. Something that combines this 
'anaconda-like' installer with an automated compilation system could 
work. Source compresses much more easily than do binaries and my thought 
was that perhaps we could compile small utilities on the fly that would 
normally take 200-300k but in source fit into just 10 to 15k. This is 
assuming they are not statically linked and ROS provides everything they 
need at runtime. On a fast machine the average user probably wouldent 
notice a 3 or 4 second delay for a small utility to compile for the 
first time upon being run (from a linux perspective they compile very 
fast.. I'm unsure of ROS and compiling in general).

This whole space saving advantage would be the justification for dialup 
users to use source over binaries at the expense of some initial 
slowdown at installation b/c of compiling. This wouldent exist if they 
were using a broadband connection to use or download ROS.

Also, a self extracting medium could be used with both zip and 7zip 
incorperated into one another. You use the best method, either zip or 
7zip for a file and then archive the whole thing without compression in 
a larger zip file and then slap an executable in the same directory to 
handle it (i.e: installer.exe, installer.archive).

My 2 cents,
Nick LaRoche

Waldo Alvarez Cañizares wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I doubt normal Windows users will be downloading sources of anything ever. BTW is a lot more dificult to set the build environment than to decompress the sources using 7zip. Beleiveme is a real pain to download ROS if you have a dialup connection. Why waste our time when we don't need to. Again if still you consider that a zip distribution should still be available for download why not distribute both zip and 7zip. Is that much space? Or it takes to much time to pack? I would answer no to both questions.
>
>Regards
>Waldo
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ros-dev-bounces at reactos.com on behalf of Andrew Flynn
>Sent: Thu 4/14/2005 4:28 AM
>To: ReactOS Development List
>Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 7-zip - holy smokes!
> 
>I agree with Michael B.
>7Zip is superior to ZIP. You have to remember who will be downloading 
>the source, compressed files. Is it going to be standard windows users 
>that use winzip and nothing else?
>When it comes to mass distribution of images, the iso format seems like 
>a sensible choice, where the setup programs can utilise whatever 
>compression they like. PKZip may be the most popular, but that does not 
>mean that ReactOS files have to use it.
>
>
>
>
>Michael B. Trausch wrote:
>
>  
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>>Thomas Weidenmueller wrote:
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I don't think it's a good choice for our public downloads, the avarage
>>>user most likely will not know this format. zip still is THE standard.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>True, it is.  However, end-users will follow whatever trends are set for
>>them.  ZIP got to be big and well-known because of PKZip, honestly.
>>
>>If 7-Zip is that much better, then I'd say we go for it and put in
>>something like red text above the link to the downloads page that we use
>>7-Zip.
>>
>>Or, we could give users their option and offer both.  Those concerned
>>about bandwidth would use the 7-Zip version, and those who don't care
>>can go with the other one.
>>
>>As far as users and .EXE files - End Users download EXE files all of the
>>time.  They don't know any better.  They see the box in MSIE and go,
>>"Yeah, whatever, it's my computer and I wanna download it," click it
>>away and move on.  *shrugs*
>>
>>That's why I make money outside of my job, cleaning up after people's
>>idiotic mistakes, but that's another story altogether.  If we offer them
>>a self-extracting version and a 7-Zip'd version, that'd be even better
>>in terms of download time/bandwidth.
>>
>>Not to mention, if 7-Zip can be distributed with ReactOS, it's a good
>>way to get it out there.  Since it's under LGPL, it'd be something that
>>could even be built into ReactOS in the same way as .ZIP format support
>>is built into more recent versions of Windows (and hopefully, just as
>>easy to disable, because I hate that feature, but plenty of people
>>absolutely love it).
>>
>>Not only all of that, but since it's a superior compression scheme, it'd
>>be logical to support it and help further it's distribution so that
>>people would use it.  People don't just sit down very frequently and go,
>>"Hrm.  I think I am going to search out a new way to compress my files,"
>>because they figure that compression is compression is compression, and
>>that's all there is to it.
>>
>>All in all, I think it'd be wise, especially over the long-term, to use
>>and support 7-Zip.
>>
>>	- Mike
>>
>>- --
>>Michael B. Trausch                               <fd0man at gmail.com>
>>Website: http://fd0man.chadeux.net/     Jabber: mtrausch at jabber.com
>>Phone: +1-(678)-522-7934              FAX (US Only): 1-866-806-4647
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