[ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
Hartmut Birr
Hartmut.Birr at gmx.de
Fri Jun 25 23:21:39 CEST 2004
Hi,
if you download and install the ddk, you must agree an EULA. The same
occurs, if you get or buy the IFS kit. This EULA prevents you from using any
informations from the ddk or the ifs kit for developing any piece of code
for ROS. That is no problem for the informations of the ddk. This
informations are available from the web without any restrictions. But you
can not use the informations of the IFS kit. If you not respect the EULA or
the rights from M$ and use the informations for ROS, do you expect that
anybody respects your rights or the rights of the LGPL under which you
contribute your code? If it is your attitude to ignore the rights of others
for the development of ROS, then you are the wrong person for the ROS team.
If this is the attitude of the ROS developer team, then I'm the wrong person
for the ROS team. I need clarity for this point.
- Hartmut
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com] On Behalf Of Alex Ionescu
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:28 AM
> To: 'ReactOS Kernel List'
> Subject: RE: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
>
>
> The IFS does not have an NDA anymore, AFAIK.
> You order it from their website, pay 899$, and receive the CD.
>
> However, this worries me... I do think that most of the
> prototypes from the IFS are in the GNU IFS or all over the
> web...I wouldn't mind finding them if I really have to. I
> just don't remember the IFS being attached with an NDA
> anymore (Before yes though)
>
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com]
> On Behalf Of Skywing
> Sent: June 24, 2004 7:07 PM
> To: 'ReactOS Kernel List'
> Subject: RE: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
>
> The IFS kit is a special case because it is licensed with an
> NDA that prohibits you from disclosing the information
> contained within it. So you would be facing much more
> serious charges than copyright infringement (which I believe
> the consensus is: not an issue if you aren't copying and
> pasting from things you are licensed to have/view) there I
> think if Microsoft decided to take you to court.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com]
> On Behalf Of Alex Ionescu
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 5:54 PM
> To: 'ReactOS Kernel List'
> Subject: RE: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
>
> Hi Harmutt,
>
> Sorry, my reply to you got lost since I hadn't sent it from home.
>
> My knowledge comes from the DDK, IFS, Google, Newsgroups, and
> some public PPT presentations from MS Kernel Devs.
>
> I never read, came close to, or copied anything from the W2K
> source code. I am not as stupid as to blatantly do that. I
> wouldn't even look at it because I know it would taint me. I
> take this very seriously.
>
> You mentioned that if they come from the IFS, this violates
> M$ copyright. I was under the impression that this was OK if
> they are re-written, and not copied. I have asked Vizzini to
> get an official answer on this from his sources.
>
> As for the "VOID declared in comments as an undocumented
> type", well that's very easy. There is a similar documented
> function which returns a type similar to the function's name.
> I simply extrapolated that this similar function uses the
> same arguments and returns the same type as the name (which I
> was not able to find anywhere, as you mentioned). So no foul
> play was involved in there.
>
> I appreciate your concern and I think it's great...we really
> need to watch out for illegal commits, and I'm more then
> happy to cooperate if re-writing stuff from the IFS is not OK
> (I'll just use the public GNU ntifs.h...).
>
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com]
> On Behalf Of Hartmut Birr
> Sent: June 24, 2004 6:30 PM
> To: 'ReactOS Kernel List'; ionucu at videotron.ca
> Subject: RE: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
>
> Hi,
>
> if it nice that you have an answer of Eric's questions. It
> seems, you have no answer of my question. Please explain,
> from where comes your knowledge about the definition of some
> types and functions which you have contributed. This types
> and functions was never published on the web or on an other
> public area. If your knowledge comes either from the IFSDDK
> or from the W2K source which M$ has lost some months ago, it
> will violate the M$ copyright.
>
> - Hartmut
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> > [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com] On Behalf Of Alex Ionescu
> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:16 PM
> > To: 'ReactOS Kernel List'
> > Subject: RE: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
> >
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > I am aware that some of them were placed in the wrong files.
> > It is a work in progress, as the other devs have been made
> > aware of. There are other people working on the stubs whose
> > job is to alphabetize them and put them in the correct files.
> > I've done my best to place them where they should be, but
> > I've probably made mistakes, which is why other devs have
> > volunteered to clean them up. So it's not a "waste of time",
> > they volunteered to do so. I asked if a branch would be
> > better, but everyone at the time said merging into HEAD would
> > be ok, as long as it's not a complete mess (and I don't think
> > 5 or 6 stubs out of 300 placed in the wrong files is a mess).
> >
> > I made sure not to copy paste anything, because I've asked
> > Steven Edwards and he said to re-write everything. I use MSVC
> > and obviously use the MS indentation because that's what I
> > have in front of me. But I can name one difference, in the
> > way they add spaces and I don't (After the function name).
> > Notice that I *did* copy some of them from Internet sites
> > (stubs which weren't in the MS headers), since I don't think
> > that violates anything (and that's like 5% of the stubs). If
> > it does, I'll gladly remove and re-write them.
> >
> > As for prototypes being put in internal header files, the
> > reason is probably because 1) I made a mistake for those
> > prototypes (which the people who volunteered to clean up will
> > fix, or I myself)
> > 2) Some of them I thought belonged there because
> > similar ones are placed there.
> >
> > Now Eric, I'd like to add that I didn't wake up one morning
> > and decide to commit 500 stubs because I felt like it. There
> > was a lot of feedback on the #ros IRC channel, and I've asked
> > over 12 developers, including Vizzini if adding stubs was ok.
> > I've talked to some people to help me organize them (place
> > them in the right files) and also on how they should be done
> > (UNIMPLEMENTED/DEPRECATED). I am very conscious about the
> > dangers of violating Microsoft copyright, and I find it
> > strange that as a person who usually doesn't appreciate and
> > has taken a stance against such actions would actually do them.
> >
> > I've been working for over a month on these 50% of stubs, and
> > have taken diligent care in respecting all the rules and
> > constant feedback from others. I appreciate your comments but
> > I feel personally attacked for some non-issues. The stubs are
> > *BETA* and they will be properly arranged by me and others.
> > It won't kill anyone that Ipi is accidentally in DPC for some time.
> >
> > Finally, stubs are actually useful, even though I've heard
> > you hate them. For example, Steven is trying to get an FS
> > driver for NT working, and needed the Cc Stubs. Many more
> > drivers and apps will load with stubs in place, rather then
> > just not crashing.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com
> > [mailto:ros-kernel-bounces at reactos.com]
> > On Behalf Of Eric Kohl
> > Sent: June 24, 2004 6:30 AM
> > To: ReactOS Kernel List
> > Subject: Re: [ros-kernel] RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: reactos
> >
> >
> > "Hartmut Birr" <Hartmut.Birr at gmx.de> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > you added new prototypes or stubs to the ros source. I've
> not found
> > > any public informations about many of this functions. In some
> > > declarations,
> > the
> > > types of the parameters are out-commanded and replaced with
> > VOID. Over
> > this
> > > types is also no public information available. This is
> > suspicious for
> > > me. Please explain from where your informations comes.
> > >
> > > - Hartmut
> >
> > I'd also like to add that a lot of functions were obviously
> > placed in the wrong files. For example, KiIpiServiceRoutine()
> > does not belong into ntoskrnl/ke/dpc.c because it is no DPC
> > function but is a multiprocessor support routine (IPI =
> > Interprocessor Interrupt, see Intel MP specification).
> >
> > A lot of stubs and prototypes look like they were cut &
> > pasted from MS headers because they use exactly the same
> > indentation. We cannot accept such contributions as they
> > violate Microsofts copyright!
> >
> > Finally I'd like to mention that several prototypes were
> > place in internal header files although they belong into the
> > ddk headers.
> >
> >
> > Please stop adding stubs because you are wasting your time an
> > the time of those who have to clean-up the mess.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eric Kohl
> >
>
>
>
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