ASUS EEE

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Haos
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Post by Haos »

WINE has its limits. Some copy protection drivers aren`t to be functioning in WINE, no matter what you do. WINE devs are admitting this as well. Other thing, our project`s goals are so apart one from another, we are not in direct competition in Wine, because of two things.

One is important, oiaohm, but wasn`t mentioned here. WINE is a lot more mature, they`re preparing to release 1.0 in two months. We are on alpha stage. Second thing is that WINE is linux based, wheareas we try to offer the NT os solution. People still aren`t too keen to switch between *nix and NT on a day to day basis.

Yes, making NT working in usermode only is not an easy task, still its probably easier than working out an NT kernel from scratch.

I keep on calling wine a smaller code base, because this is the fact. Unless you wish to prove me that a combatibility layer of NT OS is fatter than full implementation of NT system itself.

The amount of devs is newer large enough, but i wasnt calling it like that, i was comparing both projects and taking it relatively.

Also i havent seen you around, working a lot with ROS for some time. Also I did some compare tests with WINE, was even building wine myself for some time. I guess you are in exactly opposite situation.

Rest of the point taken.
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Post by oiaohm »

Some sections done on Linux are pains in but very complex Haos for wine. Direct X to Opengl is one of those insanely complex operations. The translation system could endup being twice the size of what greatlord is producing to run direct x. Wine is saving on code base size on some places and costing a packet in others Haos. Working out if it will be smaller or larger its a little too soon to call.

You are party right. What wine did was avoid having to face the hard reversing bit with hacks. But as with all hacks they sooner or latter become problems. Due to the limits causes by not having a NT kernel is why ros was used in the first prototype that lead to the winedevice section. Its the mature bit that is important Haos its getting harder and harder to make more applications work in wine without good form of a nt kernel built for usermode.

The major punkbuster game protection problem is Direct X input and other things as well in wine to pass some anti-cheat drivers will have to be passed threw equal to real NT interfaces. Ie the lack of NT kernel and direct to Linux kernel is coming back and bitting wine really hard in places. Everyone of the wine's hacks are now coming back and biting. Fixing them all at once is for sure not simple. As you said building a NT kernel is not a simple process. If it be usermode or real hardware both are complex.

As I said ros and wine started and complete different ends of problem. But without the complete length between between both ends both projects have problems. Currently wine is trying to make its way to both ends.

Now Z98 question. Ok support for kernel mode in wine. There are a few different ways. For a lot of drivers real kernel mode is not required. http://lwn.net/Articles/232575/ UIO. Usermode Input Output addons for Linux. Nice little way to go straight past the kernel to the real hardware under it from usermode. Of course its not without a performance hit risks.

These additions are adding a microkernel like nature to the Linux kernel. As well these addition are going to be expanded to allow applications, paravirtualised Linux kernel and OS's running inside KVM to access real hardware parts. Note wine using the interface could take less of a hit than running reactos in a KVM.

So Linux kernel is ending up somewhere between a monolithic kernel and a micro kernel. Now all its would take is for Kernel mode Linux to get into main tree and Linux kernel would be somewhere between hybrid monolithic and microkernel. The Linux kernel is slowly taking in all the major kernel designs.

Yep Z98 linux developers are already in the process of providing the means for wine to run a lot of different drivers. Except they are not doing it directly for wine. They are doing it because it suits the needs of Linux to be able to get closed source drivers out of kernel space and all the security risks that come from closed source drivers from a dead maker of a device.

There is a reason why USB is picked first. There are enough ways to directly talk to USB devices without needing to be in kernel space or platform dependency to meet most USB device drivers for windows if not all bar the usb contoller that would have to be emulated mapping to the devices user is permitted to run drivers on. In one way wine usb experiment might be really useful to ros. To add a means to micro kernel treat some of the drivers in NT. Could be handy if you need to run some unstable driver to do something.

Last vial option is for wine to run a emulated ring 0 for some parts to make them work. Hopefully not required since that comes at a high performance cost. It has been considered a few times for those pain in the but copy protection drivers that refuse to work.

Linux is trying to offer a solution one way or the other were Windows/Linux ceases to be a choice. You can just have both at once. Reactos has a slot in the Linux goals. Maybe for those odd pest drivers inside kvm space.

ps kvm is equalling http://kvm.sf.net
tomleem
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by tomleem »

Pete79 wrote:sorry for bad english.

have one try to run ReactOS on Asus EEE subnotebook. with 2-8gb flashdisk maybe the perfect hardware basis for reactos!

win xp support run out near future, vista to fat for umpc -> Reactos, the perfect choice :twisted: (or linux)
I bought and received a mini-pci-e ssd card with 32 gigabyte of memory. I am using an USB external cd-rom drive. I tried to install ReactOS 0.3.6 onto it. It seems to start the install process but the screen goes blank and nothing happens after that. :( I thought I would give it a try but it did not seem to work. I will try again when newer ROS comes out. 8)

I bought another usb cd drive. I tried to install ROS .3.6 but it had the same result; screen going blank after it seems to start the install. I will wait till .3.7 comes out and give it a try. :mrgreen:
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by tomleem »

Will a future version of ROS support e-sata drives? :?: I believe this is what is in my EEE PC. 8)
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Tom Lee M / BigGoofyGuy
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vicmarcal
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by vicmarcal »

Ros doesnt support SATA
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by GoBusto »

vicmarcal wrote:Ros doesnt support SATA
Yet.
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by tomleem »

GoBusto wrote:
vicmarcal wrote:Ros doesnt support SATA
Yet.
Thank you for adding the 'yet' part. It gives hope to those who want to use ROS on the EEE PC. 8)
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Tom Lee M / BigGoofyGuy
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Cristan
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by Cristan »

tomleem wrote:
GoBusto wrote:
vicmarcal wrote:Ros doesnt support SATA
Yet.
Thank you for adding the 'yet' part. It gives hope to those who want to use ROS on the EEE PC. 8)
Actually we're almost there. There already is a driver which enables large hard disks and SATA. Just rename ATAPI.SYS to UNIATA.SYS and it should work! This isn't the default though because it is barely tested, so no guarantees whatsoever, but with a bit of luck it should help out a lot with running ReactOS on the EEE PC :D.
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by tomleem »

Would this be on .3.7 or a future version of ReactOS? :?:
8)
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Tom Lee M / BigGoofyGuy
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EmuandCo
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Re: ASUS EEE

Post by EmuandCo »

Nope, not in 0.3.7, but maybe in 0.4
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
tomleem
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Re: ASUS EEE and ReactOS

Post by tomleem »

I look forward to .4 and hoping I can install it on my Asus EEE PC. 8)

I tried .3.7 on my EEE PC but it was like .3.6 and went blank just after the boot screen. :(
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Tom Lee M / BigGoofyGuy
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