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Making ReactOS more public

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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby vicmarcal » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:43 pm

Pisarz wrote:But have Microsoft ever released an unfinished build of their OS to public?

Have Microsoft ever released a FINISHED build of their OS to public?
Sorry,i have to reboot, Windows 7 wants to install 20 updates.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Smiley » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:05 pm

vicmarcal wrote:Have Microsoft ever released a FINISHED build of their OS to public?
Sorry,i have to reboot, Windows 7 wants to install 20 updates.


Is ever possible to develop software to the point it doesn't need any more development?
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby gabrielilardi » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:14 pm

Smiley wrote:Is ever possible to develop software to the point it doesn't need any more development?

More specifically, an OS could need no or few updates years ago before the massive Internet age, now it is not possible.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Heis Spiter » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:32 pm

vicmarcal wrote:
Pisarz wrote:But have Microsoft ever released an unfinished build of their OS to public?

Have Microsoft ever released a FINISHED build of their OS to public?
Sorry,i have to reboot, Windows 7 wants to install 20 updates.

You should feel ashamed to post such a comment since you pretend being a tester for the ReactOS Project.

As a reminder regarding software development: no software has ever been released bugs-free. It's almost impossible to imagine and reproduce all the conditions in which the software will be run.
Now you remember that, look at how many pieces of software (this includes real software, components, libraries, and so on) are put together to make an OS.

Finally, I'd like to point that as a Linux daily-user (at both work & home), I regularly have updates available for the OS. This is unfortunately how it works. Only good point is that with Linux, you don't need to reboot.

I hope you've understood the point.
Now you can go back to nursery and play with your trolls.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby vicmarcal » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:33 pm

Heis Spiter wrote:You should feel ashamed to post such a comment since you pretend being a tester for the ReactOS Project.
::::::::
I hope you've understood the point.
Now you can go back to nursery and play with your trolls.


You should feel ashamed to post such a comment since you are a ReactOS developer. A ReactOS Dev should keep a good mood instead writting such comments, even more among ReactOS Team members. Hope you are able to perform some autocriticism about your comment.If not, the new RosKarma module will help a little.
Sorry but I'm feed up with your continuos harassings each time I post something you are not agree at all. There are other ways to not being agree, as other did.

I know your poetry level is not enough to understand an hyperbole and an ironic,playing with words, comment. As maybe my comment can be misunderstood by non-poetry-skilled readers, I'll try to explain it.

Pisarz posted a comment saying: But have Microsoft ever released an unfinished build of their OS to public?
A question arises: What does unfinished mean?And finished?OSes are not "finished" or "unfinished" as they keep being updated with new features.
So for a fixed number of features, does "finished" mean non-bugged? If that is the case, then YES, Microsoft releases non finished builds.They keep fixing the initial code after the release.
If he tried to say "finished" as "stable" then yes, Microsoft releases stable OSes.No doubt.Ours is not.
In my opinion, Microsoft doesnt release total finished builds.But keep fixing them during the life of the product. Most of the updates are not "new features" but for bugs in the initial code.
So imho his question was an hyperbole, you can't assure they release total finished builds. This links to another question: Does Microsoft release WIndows OSes having opened tickets about bugs?.The answer is Yes. Or ask to any Microsoft dev, I have some friends among them.

My reply was just another hyperbole expressing doubts about his question. "Are really all the Windows OSes finished when launched to the market?",that was the real intention of my question,trying to create a debate around it and not personal attacks.


Heis Spiter wrote:Finally, I'd like to point that as a Linux daily-user (at both work & home), I regularly have updates available for the OS. This is unfortunately how it works. Only good point is that with Linux, you don't need to reboot..


You are obviously missing a point. The way Linux is developed is not the same way Windows is. If you want some lessons comparing Microsoft development process and the Linux development process I will be on IRC to chat about it. I don't need to be a Dev to have knowledge about it.

Yours faithfully,
Víctor Martinez
A ReactOS Board Member.
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Postby hto » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:05 pm

vicmarcal, +1 :)
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby sh4ring4n » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:51 pm

Owned. :shock:
The cake is a lie!
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Pisarz » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:06 pm

For Microsoft, OS is finished, when it reaches the RTM stage. I haven't seen boxes with Longhorn pre-alpha builds in computer store...

Who said, that "finished" means "no room for improvement here"?
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Postby hto » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:39 pm

vicmarcal wrote:If not, the new RosKarma module will help a little.

Are there any plans to add this? I don't like such an idea.
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Re:

Postby vicmarcal » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:55 pm

hto wrote:
vicmarcal wrote:If not, the new RosKarma module will help a little.

Are there any plans to add this? I don't like such an idea.

Yes.There is a RosKarma module planned. The karma module will help to detect trolls plus highlight people(devs or not) who really helps in the Forum.
If your answer in the thread is marked as "The answer" by the reporter, then some points of karma will be given. If an answer is rude, stupid, violent, or violates any Forum rule, then it will recive negative Karma.
So summing up, it will help to find (just looking the Karma number and the Number of posts published by an user ) how good is his mood or how useful he is.
Also a script will help to find any abuse of RosKarma module, keeping a log of the user votes.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Haos » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:05 pm

Yes.There is a RosKarma module planned. The karma module will help to detect trolls plus highlight people(devs or not) who really helps in the Forum.
If your answer in the thread is marked as "The answer" by the reporter, then some points of karma will be given. If an answer is rude, stupid, violent, or violates any Forum rule, then it will recive negative Karma.


Reason well enough to stop posting on forum.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby vicmarcal » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:39 am

Haos wrote:Reason well enough to stop posting on forum.


Yeah, a good reason for those who are frighten to have negative Karma values to stop posting on forum.
Or at least to think twice before violating forum rules.
But I don't see why Devs or Testers who just give cool and useful answers could be frightened about such module.
Iirc a ReactOS dev was saying (maybe you Haos?) that people who didnt know Nute user could think that we were harassing him a lot. If the ReactOS Karma were implemented in that nute-time then this people just looking "nute" karma could have discovered that he was a unreliable person with bad karma because his continuos attacks. And thinking twice about our "supposed nonsense attacks against him".Credibility is the word.
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Postby hto » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:14 am

I don't mind counting positive points and highlighting helpful people.

The question is about negative "karma". If it will be made visible for forum visitors, then it will humiliate a person who has accumulated it. And I should say, I much dislike this idea. It's dehumanizing. It's an affront to human dignity.

(On the other hand, counting negative points for moderation purposes will not be very helpful. There already exists a button for reporting "bad" posts.)

Just a short reply for now. It's past bedtime now, maybe I will elaborate on it later on.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Pisarz » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:21 am

Human societies are functioning in quite identical way. People are just suffering consequences of their own mistakes, and they are often humiliated, because of what they have done in the past. I don't think it's so brutal and dehumanizing.
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Re: Making ReactOS more public

Postby Aeneas » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:53 am

The real problem of this forum - and to some degree, reading the mail archives, the intra-project-communication as well - is all too often a certain "kindergarden quality".

- There are the posters with "I have a good idea, ReactOS being an Ubuntu-derivative with a Haiku-like Wireless kernel, why do we not put a bluetooth-ROM so we can handle the flash-player better from MS-Paint? Of course, you will need to rewrite the whole project in Firefox-Prolog, but that should be a minor point."
- You make a good proposal, question or point, then comes some dimwit and says just "No." but without any explanation. He comes over, just like, ridiculous, arrogant, and socially inept, but with some title like "Sultan of Reactos and Absolute Monarch of Suck".
- You say something moderately critical, in an attempt to point out deficiencies so they be handled. Two sorts of people are attracted immediately - the "boooh, that is not true, make it yourself, we are perfect, all is GREAT, it CANNOT be done any other way, that is part of the NT ARCHITECTURE, read the forums, you are stupid etc."-people as well as the "baaah, this project is SHIT, we have WINE, why do you even do this and that is JUST ONE MORE defect"-people. Go figure the constructive discussion!
- There are often posts of the kind of "Let us do *insert random splendid idea*, but we need the project to decide" - a lonely call into TOTAL EMPTINESS, because no person of relevance ever responds, neither FOR the idea, nor AGAINST it. (This in particular happens when you talk about advertisement or recruitment of devs.)
- There are the posters with a not so obviously wrong proposal. Then they are corrected. Then they CANNOT TAKE THE CRITICISM, BAAAH, YOU STUPID FREAKS DO NOT LIKE MY IDEA GO TO HELL...
- There are the "responsibles", devs, students, testers, whatever, you ask them "Why is X not yet done, even if every hillbilly project has implemented/done/tried it?", and the answer is "Aaah, I have 5 children, my wife is divorcing me, my aunt has died, my REAL LIFE needs so much efforts, I have lost all my three jobs, how am I going to feed my ducks and complete my arts history studies, and NOW YOU ASK ABOUT THAT, OH HOW DARE YOU?" - "So, are you gonna let some else do it?" - "NO! That is MY area!"
- etc.-etc.

I actually think this Karma idea is going to develop into something like "I'm gonna get my homies and we will rate you DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, and me UP, UP, UP, cuz you do not like me and you will PAY for that!" - But fine, let us give it a try.
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