Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

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Lotusisrael
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Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server
I have recently joined this board, because I have an idea. I shall copy paste some paragraphs already posted on a different board, then continue.
As most of you know, there is a freeware version of Windows available from Microsoft, called Microsoft Hyper-V server.
It is a stripped down, server-core like Windows Server, on which only the Hyper-V role is present.
Although the GUI is almost absent, with no Windows Explorer, there are other typical Windows features that are there.
Browsers like Firefox or Chrome are installable, software like 7zip or Winrar, VLC or SMPlayer etc.
Somebody even put up a minimal GUI for it, that is loosely similar to Ubuntu Unity.

So, I see an opportunity here.
On this, we can have a freeware Windows for everyone, letting go all the drawbacks of piracy.
The only major turn off, so far, is the absence of Windows Audio service.
So, does anybody know a way to fully replace the Windows Audio service?
Update: I have got an answer on My Digital Life to try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output
I do not understand if it replaces both the audio driver, and the Windows Audio service. The second thing would be the most important part.
The solution for Windows Audio on My Digital Life did not worked, or least I could not find a way to make it work. .Net Framework 3.5 is available on the installation iso, the only thing required is to get audio to work. The rest seems rather easy. But a CPU with HAV enabled would be required, since Hyper-V needs it. The developer of the GUI created a new version of the GUI, it is a fusion between Windows Explorer and Gnome. So, any idea for audio?”

My idea is this: To create some sort of semi-ReactOS, to run it on top of Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016, a minimalistic real Windows. I mean, Windows Audio and the GUI. Development would be easier, less resources. Running on top of real Windows kernel and APIs would make software compatibility much larger. And the Windows core of this OS would be updated by Microsoft themselves. And we shall have a Windows free for everyone. Free as free beer, not free as free speech, but yet something really worth it. I am not a software developer and can not become, but I have an idea.
At least, maybe someone from here could help replace the missing Windows Audio component. That would really allow me to use this free Windows as a daily OS, both for personal and professional uses.
So, what do you think? It is possible? Does it worth it?
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Konata
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Konata »

Unfortunately ReactOS' audio systems are still a bit incomplete, there's some things it still can't do it, and it's a bit flaky.

Also, are you breaching any EULA terms by suggesting any of this? This sounds legally gray at best.
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

Konata wrote:Unfortunately ReactOS' audio systems are still a bit incomplete, there's some things it still can't do it, and it's a bit flaky.

Also, are you breaching any EULA terms by suggesting any of this? This sounds legally gray at best.
Microsoft Hyper-V Server is proprietary freeware, unlimited, for anyone. Really. The only Windows that it is so. Indeed, not open source, proprietary, but freeware. Check Technet Evaluation Center, download it, read the Eula etc. Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2012 is a build on the Windows 8 kernel, Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2012 r2 on top of the Windows 8.1 kernel, and Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016 on top of the Windows 10 kernel. On Technet Evaluation Center is listed as Unlimited and you can read the Eula, after you boot the installer on a physical x86_64 machine or a x86_64 virtual machine. It is Freeware.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcen ... erver-2016
I am not a developer, but I am pretty advanced to put up for a desktop enviroment on it, from pieces. All I am missing is a replacement for Windows Audio and audio drivers.
A desktop enviroment is allready created by someone, as I said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rnqN0NJ3bA Unfortunatly, it does not contain only open source and freeware components. Winrar is trialware, but it can be replaced with 7zip rather easily.
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Konata
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Konata »

Lotusisrael wrote:
Konata wrote:Unfortunately ReactOS' audio systems are still a bit incomplete, there's some things it still can't do it, and it's a bit flaky.

Also, are you breaching any EULA terms by suggesting any of this? This sounds legally gray at best.
Microsoft Hyper-V Server is proprietary freeware, unlimited, for anyone. Really. The only Windows that it is so. Indeed, not open source, proprietary, but freeware. Check Technet Evaluation Center, download it, read the Eula etc. Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2012 is a build on the Windows 8 kernel, Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2012 r2 on top of the Windows 8.1 kernel, and Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016 on top of the Windows 10 kernel. On Technet Evaluation Center is listed as Unlimited and you can read the Eula, after you boot the installer on a physical x86_64 machine or a x86_64 virtual machine. It is Freeware.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcen ... erver-2016
I am not a developer, but I am pretty advanced to put up for a desktop enviroment on it, from pieces. All I am missing is a replacement for Windows Audio and audio drivers.
A desktop enviroment is allready created by someone, as I said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rnqN0NJ3bA Unfortunatly, it does not contain only open source and freeware components. Winrar is trialware, but it can be replaced with 7zip rather easily.
My question had nothing to do with it being freeware. I asked if it was okay with the EULA to add an audio subsystem in whatever way you intended to. Some modifications to any Windows version is against the EULA, depending on what exactly it is you're doing.
Also please don't talk down to me like I'm a retard. I read your first post, I know what you said.
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

It seems like we misunderstood each other a bit. Now, why would it be illegal to install a third party software in a MS Windows environment, as a service? Apple installs the iPod service, with iTunes. This does not modify the OS, it just adds something to it that was not there before. It would be the same thing, to add a third party component that gives a new function, without modifying the os.
middings
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by middings »

A similar idea was proposed in the topic "I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly" just six months ago. After discussion the idea was discarded as legally questionable and technically impractical to achieve.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by dizt3mp3r »

The point is, read the EULA. Check it agrees with what you propose to do, if you are taking components and replacing them with those from other systems. You can do what you want, any way you like of course and that's up to you - but Konata's advice was good and it was to check the EULA first. Don't expect a response until you've done that. Then come back and chat.

What you are attempting to do sounds interesting.
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milon
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by milon »

Lotusisrael wrote:- snip -

My idea is this: To create some sort of semi-ReactOS, to run it on top of Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016, a minimalistic real Windows. I mean, Windows Audio and the GUI. Development would be easier, less resources. Running on top of real Windows kernel and APIs would make software compatibility much larger. And the Windows core of this OS would be updated by Microsoft themselves. And we shall have a Windows free for everyone. Free as free beer, not free as free speech, but yet something really worth it. I am not a software developer and can not become, but I have an idea.
At least, maybe someone from here could help replace the missing Windows Audio component. That would really allow me to use this free Windows as a daily OS, both for personal and professional uses.
So, what do you think? It is possible? Does it worth it?
Why not just use ReactOS itself? Why bother with Hyper-V at all? Obviously ReactOS isn't ready for that yet, but give it another year or two and we just might be in Beta. ;)

Before anyone asks - no, I don't have any inside info on when Beta might happen. Just wishful thinking on my part.
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EmuandCo
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by EmuandCo »

Lotusisrael wrote:It seems like we misunderstood each other a bit. Now, why would it be illegal to install a third party software in a MS Windows environment, as a service? Apple installs the iPod service, with iTunes. This does not modify the OS, it just adds something to it that was not there before. It would be the same thing, to add a third party component that gives a new function, without modifying the os.
Why? Well let me explain one lil example of this matter. If you buy a Windows Server 2012 R2 or newer you have some possibilities to install it. One install as host and one as Hyper-V on the same hardware. Or you can do different.... then you would install it on two Hyper-V and the Host meaning in theory three times. But in the last possibility you are NOT allowed to install ANYTHING ELSE on the host server install, ONLY Hyper-V. I am VERY sure that this is what you are allowed to do here, too. Hyper-V and NOTHING else. It's completely irrelevant if these things are 3rd party or not. So this is not of any use for anyone tryin to stay legal. And if you don't care you can easily install a cracked Windows OS as full OS.

And btw, Evaluation == non commercial only ^^
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

middings wrote:A similar idea was proposed in the topic "I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly" just six months ago. After discussion the idea was discarded as legally questionable and technically impractical to achieve.
That was quite a different thing. A comercialware software, even one that is old and no longer support, remains a closed source proprietary software. What was suggested back then was to hack XP and/or Vista and provide updates for it. That would have been 100% illegal, due to the proprietary status. In order to do that, reverse engineering and hacking would have been required. Indeed, an Eula is not absolute, it has less legal power then a law, but that would defiantly get those who made it into a lot of trouble. Second of all, technically, a complex closed source os like Windows is pretty hard to reverse engineer. It is not fully know, guess work based on documentation made the Wine and ReactOS projects possible, but they do not provide 100% compatibility. If so, Windows would have been replaced on a large scale.
My idea was to use the freeware Microsoft os legally, unmodified, and replace the missing functions with third party software, to extend the functionality. Like when you install LibreOffice on a standard Windows os, you do not modify it (reverse engineer it, hack it etc) or prevent updating of the os by Microsoft, but you extended its functionality. Copying code from a normal Windows to Microsoft Hyper-V Server would be clearly illegal and it would be easier to just commit software piracy of a full fledged Windows (not like I am saying that you should be doing that).
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

I have just read the Eula as best as I could. I could not find anything to restrict using the OS only for virtual machines. You are allowed to install on the host os third party software to manage it. Would that be a restriction? Probably not and, anyway, an Eula is not a law. Hackintoshing, for example, it is legal in the EU, as long as it is used for personal, non-commercial use, and as long as the proprietary, non-open-source components of Mac OS X are not modified, even if the Eula strictly forbids to use the software on non-Apple-labeled machines. Anyway, I have asked about the possibility of using MS Hyper-V Server 2016 on other purposes then creating and storing virtual machines on Technet Forums, just in case. Any of you can boot up the installation of the OS and check the Eula for yourself, if you want.
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

milon wrote:
Lotusisrael wrote:- snip -

My idea is this: To create some sort of semi-ReactOS, to run it on top of Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016, a minimalistic real Windows. I mean, Windows Audio and the GUI. Development would be easier, less resources. Running on top of real Windows kernel and APIs would make software compatibility much larger. And the Windows core of this OS would be updated by Microsoft themselves. And we shall have a Windows free for everyone. Free as free beer, not free as free speech, but yet something really worth it. I am not a software developer and can not become, but I have an idea.
At least, maybe someone from here could help replace the missing Windows Audio component. That would really allow me to use this free Windows as a daily OS, both for personal and professional uses.
So, what do you think? It is possible? Does it worth it?
Why not just use ReactOS itself? Why bother with Hyper-V at all? Obviously ReactOS isn't ready for that yet, but give it another year or two and we just might be in Beta. ;)

Before anyone asks - no, I don't have any inside info on when Beta might happen. Just wishful thinking on my part.
ReactOS does not provide full 100% compatibility with Windows, because Windows is a closed source, proprietary software, so outside Microsoft we do not fully know its internal structure, but it can be guessed, partly, this is why Wine and ReactOS exist. Second of all, the development is really slow. Installing a semi-ReactOS on top of a minimalistic, real and freeware Windows os would cut off financial and time costs and, due to that, would kickstart a real fast development process. Microsoft itself will make at least half of the work required for the ReactOS developers.
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

dizt3mp3r wrote:The point is, read the EULA. Check it agrees with what you propose to do, if you are taking components and replacing them with those from other systems. You can do what you want, any way you like of course and that's up to you - but Konata's advice was good and it was to check the EULA first. Don't expect a response until you've done that. Then come back and chat.

What you are attempting to do sounds interesting.
Taking components from other, non-freeware Windows OSes is clearly illegal. But modifying already open-source components of ReactOS would be a different issue, in order to run on a Microsoft OS. ReactOS being similar already to the real Windows, I suppose it would not be too hard like creating them from scratch.
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Konata
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Konata »

Lotusisrael wrote:and, anyway, an Eula is not a law.
Regardless if it is or not, this community is very legally cautious, so we disallow anything that could hurt the project's legality. We don't talk about cracks, warez, leaks, or anything of the sort.
We're not all that interested in hacking Windows itself, we're just a community about ReactOS. If you'd like to talk about questionably-legal Windows hacking you should probably go to another community that focuses on that. Again, we're just about developing and testing ReactOS. You can ask if technically any specific part of ReactOS can replace the equivalent in Windows XP, without any context as to what you're doing or how it could be EULA-breaking, but I'd do the actual discussion of that somewhere else. Sorry.

And, like Emuand said, if you want to go through this much effort while potentially breaking the EULA and having an incomplete Windows installation, you may as well just crack a full Windows. This really is an outrageously roundabout way to not pay for Windows. I mean, I won't judge you.
Lotusisrael
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Re: Freeware Windows based on Microsoft Hyper-V Server

Post by Lotusisrael »

Konata wrote:
Regardless if it is or not, this community is very legally cautious, so we disallow anything that could hurt the project's legality. We don't talk about cracks, warez, leaks, or anything of the sort.
We're not all that interested in hacking Windows itself, we're just a community about ReactOS. If you'd like to talk about questionably-legal Windows hacking you should probably go to another community that focuses on that. Again, we're just about developing and testing ReactOS. You can ask if technically any specific part of ReactOS can replace the equivalent in Windows XP, without any context as to what you're doing or how it could be EULA-breaking, but I'd do the actual discussion of that somewhere else. Sorry.

And, like Emuand said, if you want to go through this much effort while potentially breaking the EULA and having an incomplete Windows installation, you may as well just crack a full Windows. This really is an outrageously roundabout way to not pay for Windows. I mean, I won't judge you.
Lol, the point was exactly this, to have it legally. And Linux would do really well, no Windows piracy required, for my part, but for many this would be really be a treat.
As I have explained, I guess, pretty clearly, what I have in mind, if anyone likes the idea, the Eula is readable. If Microsoft did not wanted third party programs being installed on Microsoft Hyper-V Server as a host os, they would have locked the OS down, like the it was the case with Windows RT. Third party software is installable on standard Windows Server, including non-server software. I mean, if I install VLC on WS 2016 I am not doing anything illegal, I am not even breaking the Eula. So, as I said, you can download the Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2016 and read the Eula. Then, if you think there is something there to prevent what I was thinking, you can say it in here.
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