How many of you still use Windows XP?

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val
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by val » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:03 pm

At worst this could potentially allow any user program even web-based javascript programs to access kernel memory and inject code to compromise the system.
wow wow wow, not that far. this buggy "optimization" from Intel allows for only "guessing" kernel memory content. That isn't even close to the "code injection". No need to over-color an already sh1tty situation.

dizt3mp3r
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by dizt3mp3r » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:39 pm

Not over-colouring. My first impression that's all based upon the facts I had at the time. As you say the issue is with regard to reading kernel-protected memory not modifying it.

PS. Reading the Google documentation https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.co.u ... -side.html implies at least the possibilty of Branch target injection so it may be possible.

Jasinswift
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by Jasinswift » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:09 pm

I'm still using XP and it's fine for most things. I have windows 7 professional but got fed up with the amount of updates I was having to install almost every time I logged in. I guess XP is fairly safe so long as you have your firewall switched on and a good internet security running in the background. I'll only switch to windows 7 when stuff stops working properly on XP. :)
regards
Jasin.

dizt3mp3r
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by dizt3mp3r » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:23 pm

Jasinswift wrote: I guess XP is fairly safe so long as you have your firewall switched on and a good internet security running in the background..


Hmmmm, nah.

Disconnect the internet, do not install any new software and you'll be OK. Otherwise you'll be hacked - for certain.

It is getting that easy to hack an o/s when a javascript drive-by can steal your private data. If you don't understand this then you aren't capable of making the decision.

You can 'guess' all you like but 99% of your guesses sound like incorrect ones from the example above.

val
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by val » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:43 pm

Jasinswift wrote:I'm still using XP and it's fine for most things. I have windows 7 professional but got fed up with the amount of updates I was having to install almost every time I logged in. I guess XP is fairly safe so long as you have your firewall switched on and a good internet security running in the background. I'll only switch to windows 7 when stuff stops working properly on XP. :)
regards
Jasin.
I'm using XP on one of my machines. Now it has 3 installations - XP SP3. XP x64 and 7. The former is the same installation from the beginning of usage of this computer - 2008 year. And it is still in the same working state. Moreover. I run this computer regularly (it's my home workstation, I am not used to laptops) and I don't even have any anti-virus software on any installations. It's connected to Internet all the time. And it was never hacked.
I don't install suspicious software from shitty sites. Only software I know of.
When you hear something like "no, your XP for sure will be hacked just in a minute..." just skip this. Of course, for general user it's far better to use new OS and other software. But this exaggerration of the "danger" for old OS versions is slightly overplayed. The main thing to remember - we, you and me, anybody, aren't needed for NSA and 3v1l c00lh4ck3rZZZ. On the other hand, if you are of interest for them, they'll get ya instantly even if you patched everything twice and your computer/phone is just hot from the store with the newest software on it. Angela Merkel for example knows it for sure. :lol:

karlexceed
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by karlexceed » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:29 pm

It's literally a matter of minutes before an exposed, unpatched system can become infected:
https://isc.sans.edu/survivaltime.html

It all depends on what protections you have between the internet and your PC, but the graph shows cumulative results of observing automated hits against various networks around the globe.

That's the key here - it's not "l33t hax0rs" or the NSA that anyone needs to worry about. It's the fact that the internet is full of totally automated systems, viruses, and botnets that are constantly scanning all ports available to find a foot in the door. Maybe your router or firewall has a zero day, hell, maybe your router is infected itself. The internet is not a friendly place.

And all of this doesn't even look into the biggest threat of all - browsing the web with one of these older, unpatched systems. Drive-by downloads, malvertisements, XSS, Javascript exploits, browser plugin exploits, pop-ups, etc etc etc.

If you can accept these risks - go ahead and use XP for your internet needs. Just know that you'll likely get infected eventually.

For me personally, I think XP belongs in VMs or non-networked embedded devices only at this point.

dizt3mp3r
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by dizt3mp3r » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:07 pm

karlexceed wrote:It's literally a matter of minutes before an exposed, unpatched system can become infected:
and the trouble is - he won't know when he is infected... and he'll be sitting there thinking how secure he is.
karlexceed wrote:For me personally, I think XP belongs in VMs or non-networked embedded devices only at this point.
Agreed

You'd be better off running win 3.11 on a 900mhz Pentium and an utterly out-of-date browser that nothing works in, a nice fast drive and you'll be ready to go. It'll work, it will be fast and probably be a lot safer. Probably.

I am one of XPs biggest fans and I'd run it too, given a preference. It just isn't safe to do so and be connected to the internet at the same time.

If you have to use it for email then that is just possible given that you can secure the system reasonably well using the correct tools. I would no longer browse nor install new software from any location...Simply remove all browsers. A very secure router and a good hardware firewall.

val
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by val » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:24 pm

For me personally, I think XP belongs in VMs
Without tin foil on your head that's not gonna help, VMs pass through it all right into the very same "unpatched outdated system" exposing it for those hordes of automated systems searching for intrusion into the machine through defenseless ports.
and the trouble is - he won't know when he is infected... and he'll be sitting there thinking how secure he is.
what do you think a botnet attached machine does? sits silently doing nothing? watches your pr0n collection secretely? OK. that's not a big deal. but in reality it cannot hide its activity. because it wants sending a lot of requests to other places (attacking sites). This is not possible to not detect.

Most malware is installed "manually" by users ready to click everything that blinks "run me". With administrative rights often. That is the problem any patches could not prevent from.
Drive-by downloads, malvertisements, XSS, Javascript exploits, browser plugin exploits, pop-ups, etc etc etc.
right. very kernel/system components vulnerabilities... these are prevented by browsers updates. it's their field of responsibilty.

the one real system component vulnerability (that, found in an outdated version of SMB protocol driver) was patched for every OS version.

I run this machine without any browser plugin activated, and even using shockwave flash rarely, I use the latest version. everything I installed here was software from authorized sources (Microsoft, Linaro, Imgtec, Apache etc). I don't even use file sharing. Just because I don't need it. It's a machine for coding, reading documentation and technical sites and some forums. no signs of infection in 10 years! my experience. why should I believe internet paranoya more than it?

karlexceed
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by karlexceed » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:01 pm

val wrote: VMs pass through it all right into the very same "unpatched outdated system" exposing it for those hordes of automated systems searching for intrusion into the machine through defenseless ports.

...these are prevented by browsers updates. it's their field of responsibilty.
The reason I said VM is not because it's any safer for the OS inside the VM, but because it's protecting my stuff on the host outside of the VM. Plus I can snapshot my clean install and literally always have a fresh copy of XP every time I fire it up.

How many modern browsers (still receiving updates) will work for XP? A consistently decreasing number. Not IE (definitely not Edge), not Chrome, not Opera, not Firefox... How many anti-virus programs?

Also, let's not forget that whole Malwarebytes infection issue. Remember not too long ago that one of the most trusted anti-malware tools had it's legitimate binary infected. Legitimate site, legitimate download - BAM - infected.

The thing about this whole argument is this: What I think is an acceptable risk is not the same as what you think is an acceptable risk. Also, anecdotes about never being infected (especially from people that are tech-savvy) do not reflect at all on the safety of the system overall.

middings
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by middings » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:28 am

karlexceed wrote:How many modern browsers (still receiving updates) will work for XP? A consistently decreasing number. Not IE (definitely not Edge), not Chrome, not Opera, not Firefox... How many anti-virus programs?
Just received the Firefox 52.6.0 ESR update for my Microsoft Windows XP system. My 3rd party anti-virus software still gets updates, that's how it notified me of the new Firefox update.

I keep a pair of Windows XP machines around for experimenting with ReactOS. If I wasn't interested in ReactOS, I would have already moved to a newer version of Windows.

milon
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by milon » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:37 pm

I don't think this has been said yet: 95% of ATM machines around the world are running Win XP embedded. Just do an online search for something like "Windows XP ATM" if you want the scary details.

PurpleGurl
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by PurpleGurl » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:29 pm

I do have a couple of vendor-locked boxes sitting around that only have XP drivers and are a brand that is licensed to use XP without activation. I don't use them now, but if I must to be able to download files to get one of my other rigs going, I will.

karlexceed
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by karlexceed » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:53 pm

middings wrote: Just received the Firefox 52.6.0 ESR update for my Microsoft Windows XP system.
Sadly, it looks like that will soon come to an end.

FF 52 is last version to support XP/Vista:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/en ... -and-vista

FF ESR 52 is slated to go EOL August 28, 2018:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/

dizt3mp3r
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by dizt3mp3r » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:09 am

Palemoon is still supported in general even if not built specifically for XP by the team.
Though there is an active group that are still doing so.

petersh
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Re: How many of you still use Windows XP?

Post by petersh » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:55 am

I am still using windows XP now. Even Microsoft no longer supports XP, but it is not important to me.
I think the newer version of windows requires more and more hardware architecture.
With XP, I still can play some old games with my friends. I tried to win 7 but it made my computer slow
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