Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

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Linuxgamer94
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by Linuxgamer94 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:11 pm

milon wrote:
Linuxgamer94 wrote:I dought an update server can work on ROS as it does not realy work in Windows. You have to update Windows and all the other programs one by one. That is a pain, Linux and Unix based OS's can update React OS is based on NT so I dought it can update. Even if it does it will problay break everything.
I think you missed the entire point of Windows Update (and by extension, of ReactOS Update). It's an application that meant to update the operating system - not the user-installed software. The Windows version works just fine (I use it frequently myself). The ReactOS one will be no different once it's built.
If ti does not update all the software there is no point to an updater..

gonzoMD
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by gonzoMD » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:17 pm

Linuxgamer94 wrote:
milon wrote:
Linuxgamer94 wrote:I dought an update server can work on ROS as it does not realy work in Windows. You have to update Windows and all the other programs one by one. That is a pain, Linux and Unix based OS's can update React OS is based on NT so I dought it can update. Even if it does it will problay break everything.
I think you missed the entire point of Windows Update (and by extension, of ReactOS Update). It's an application that meant to update the operating system - not the user-installed software. The Windows version works just fine (I use it frequently myself). The ReactOS one will be no different once it's built.
If ti does not update all the software there is no point to an updater..
I think more and more that you don't understand that ReactOS is not Linux. You need an updater To fix security and other issues inside the OS.

Linuxgamer94
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by Linuxgamer94 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:27 pm

I know the diffrence, First React OS should not need to fix security issues that is something the beta stage is for, if they get to it. Second if that is all it is for then what is the point in making it in the first place when you can just upgrade to the next version of ROS. I still think that React OS should allow the community to create a gaming thread in the forums. I know that one of the games I would want to play is the Sims and the Sims 3. What if the Sims 3 works on Linux, PC-BSD, and Mac under Wine then why not have it work on ROS. I know that ROS might be missing some programs required, but I guess that they won't be hard to find or make. Yes I know Mac has their own version. Also I think they should work on porting Darling over, wait that might be the goals of Pure Darwin.XD

erkinalp
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by erkinalp » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 pm

I have an idea for software repository and updates:
-Let us use main development tree for ROS packaging. There will be a folder called optional/ and they will contain the codebase of FOSS applications. Remember that, being both OS and Application FOSS, we can provide tighter integration for some software(this will definitely work for, e.g VideoLAN suite) than it can achieve under Windows. Users downloading apps from this repo will benefit in usage to the ones who use stock builds.
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

Linuxgamer94
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by Linuxgamer94 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:33 pm

Built in clone of Dreamsceen would be nice.

milon
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by milon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:32 pm

Linuxgamer94, you seem to be confused and your thoughts are all over the place. I suggest you go back and reread this thread from the start. That will give you a better idea of what ROS Update is.

And while it's off topic, why would we need a gaming thread? In what way would you relate it to ReactOS?
Linuxgamer94 wrote:Built in clone of Dreamsceen would be nice.
We're really just writing an operating system, here. We're not porting other software or creating new applications to go with ROS. If you mean there's already a good clone, you should post about it in the appropriate thread.

milon
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by milon » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:36 pm

erkinalp wrote:I have an idea for software repository and updates:
-Let us use main development tree for ROS packaging. There will be a folder called optional/ and they will contain the codebase of FOSS applications. Remember that, being both OS and Application FOSS, we can provide tighter integration for some software(this will definitely work for, e.g VideoLAN suite) than it can achieve under Windows. Users downloading apps from this repo will benefit in usage to the ones who use stock builds.
I don't think we should maintain an "Optional" folder. If we try to host a bunch of 3rd party installers, we'll need to constantly keep everything in sync as well as support additional bandwidth usage. Having links to the site/package is enough, and RAPPS already does that.

mrugiero
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by mrugiero » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 am

Linuxgamer94 wrote:I know the diffrence, First React OS should not need to fix security issues that is something the beta stage is for, if they get to it. Second if that is all it is for then what is the point in making it in the first place when you can just upgrade to the next version of ROS. I still think that React OS should allow the community to create a gaming thread in the forums. I know that one of the games I would want to play is the Sims and the Sims 3. What if the Sims 3 works on Linux, PC-BSD, and Mac under Wine then why not have it work on ROS. I know that ROS might be missing some programs required, but I guess that they won't be hard to find or make. Yes I know Mac has their own version. Also I think they should work on porting Darling over, wait that might be the goals of Pure Darwin.XD
Even Linux has got security problems that won't get fixed on the RCs, they slip, you can not find all, and you need to release fixes for the ones you find, that's what the updater is for.
Also, you forget a lot of points on how Windows works, and ReactOS aims to be Windows compatible.
You have, for example, the fact that not even with Ubuntu you can update everything with the package manager, but only what is on repositories. On Windows, you either install programs through Steam (and Steam does update them by itself, so you need no extra updater) or install with an exe, and a package manager would have no way to track its origin to download updates. You will also need to impose a standard for others to follow, and then you lose the point of not adding extra learning curve and work for other programs to work on ReactOS.

milon
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by milon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:01 pm

mrugiero wrote:... ReactOS aims to be Windows compatible.
... You will also need to impose a standard for others to follow, and then you lose the point of not adding extra learning curve and work for other programs to work on ReactOS.
And that would compromise our first objective: to be Windows compatible. An automatic updater would be a wonderful feature, but I just don't see how it is logistically possible.

erkinalp
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Re: Reactos Update

Post by erkinalp » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:37 pm

An automatic updater would be a wonderful feature, but I just don't see how it is logistically possible.
Possible for MSI installers. Also possible for the FOSS applications even if they use an .exe installer.(using a local build on ReactOS server and porting the installation procedure into a RAPPS/updater script) The important thing is for outside MSIs, we will have to manually add the update path for each revision. It's fairly easier than the "Optional" folder (which I recommended for tight integration of some FOSS). For ReactOS components, development will happen on the tree, so we will already have their package paths as we package the updates.
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2

Alahndro
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by Alahndro » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:44 pm

Just to add my 2 cents to this:

The updater should work online and offline. Maybe we can combine it with the installer wizard:

Online means you're running reactos and update it from within

Offline means that you run it from within windows and the Reactos partition is mounted (Driver Letter "R:", harhar )

Also you could just donwload the iso, mount or extract it and run the updater from there, it will install it to the selected partition.

(Note: I running a multi-boot configuration that gets selected with the "active"-boot flag or chainloaded on-the-fly from freeldr)

mrugiero
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by mrugiero » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:19 am

milon wrote:
mrugiero wrote:... ReactOS aims to be Windows compatible.
... You will also need to impose a standard for others to follow, and then you lose the point of not adding extra learning curve and work for other programs to work on ReactOS.
And that would compromise our first objective: to be Windows compatible. An automatic updater would be a wonderful feature, but I just don't see how it is logistically possible.
Yes, that was the point. I was trying to explain that.

Linuxgamer94
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by Linuxgamer94 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:00 pm

Yet it woun't be compatable with its self and with out purpose the point is lost.

mrugiero
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by mrugiero » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:57 pm

Linuxgamer94 wrote:Yet it woun't be compatable with its self and with out purpose the point is lost.
I don't understand what you tried to say.
But the point was actually the contradiction, the idea was to make clear why a general update center like it's used on Linux makes no sense inside of ReactOS.

naums
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Re: Reactos Update (Was: ReactOS applications needed?)

Post by naums » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:26 am

Yeees. great guys.

I see now, even if I would have built the software, there would be noone to use it, for anyone just asking "If it doesn't update my firefox and stuff I can't use it". Thanks. Sorry for getting you guys back to normal, but Windows Update doesn't do that either. Oh uhm. "An update-Server, that could run on ReactOS". Nice Idea. What happens, when the update Server crashes? ...

I'll quote some guys - if my writing style gets angry - sorry for that.
If ti does not update all the software there is no point to an updater..
We had this discussion long time ago, when I started to build the updater. I won't talk to you anymore about that. Thanks.
What if the Sims 3 works on Linux, PC-BSD, and Mac under Wine then why not have it work on ROS.
Good, that it's that easy. The Ros Devs will talk to Sims 3 and probably it will see, that i might run under Ros. It's exactly how it works.
I have an idea for software repository and updates:
Without reading your comment yet: Repos - we could do that, or just shredder my knee. Why should we have an easy updater, when we do it more complex, than any developer alone could understand and make. Did you think on security? APT works with PGP, you know that? I don't want to write PGP just for the Updater. - overkilllllll.
Users downloading apps from this repo will benefit in usage to the ones who use stock builds.
How would they benefit?
An automatic updater would be a wonderful feature, but I just don't see how it is logistically possible.
Here is how: We (or I wrote) write an basic command line program, that calls wget and wgets stuff from the internet. Then the files will be copied over the ReactOS file, before they are loaded. (Note: Windows and ReactOS don't allow overwriting files, while they are open - this is one reason, why I can't go further - I will definitly have a big problem with that)
The updater should work online and offline
offline... Uuuuuuuhm.
Also you could just donwload the iso, mount or extract it and run the updater from there, it will install it to the selected partition.
I thought on that - well not exactly but pretty much like downloading the full iso, unararing it, and extracting it to harddisk within ReactOS. Downloading only files, will have not that big influence on how one's bandwidth is used.


By the way: there are other problems you have than "why does it make sense or not": You don't have a developer for developing ReactOS Update. So stop bitching about stuff you don't even have in your hands. ReactOS is an alpha-project, stop stopping good movements in the project. Either you like it, then please go ahead or you dislike it, then you might want to inform the developers kindly or the found bugs with Jira. Stop overthinking it.

Regards.

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