[News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

[News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by vicmarcal »

During these weeks we had been implementing a couple of new features to the new Community website.
One of the main suggestions in this Forum is about keeping updated with the latest News, so anyone can track the ReactOS progress.
Probably the best way is just to receive the information directly to the email inbox, and that's the ReactOS Community Newsletter.
Thanks to it, you can keep informed with the latest news without being forced to check the ReactOS Community site.
Hope you like this free service!


Previous surprises you may lost:
  1. Surprise of the week: T-shirts are cooming
  2. Surprise of the week: Introduction and Artwork
  3. 1/2 Surprise of the week: Subscriptions are enabled
  4. 1/2 Surprise of the week: USBs are cooming
Thanks IGG campaign to make this possible.
More info
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

vicmarcal wrote:During these weeks we had been implementing a couple of new features to the new Community website.
One of the main suggestions in this Forum is about keeping updated with the latest News, so anyone can track the ReactOS progress.
Probably the best way is just to receive the information directly to the email inbox, and that's the ReactOS Community Newsletter.
Thanks to it, you can keep informed with the latest news without being forced to check the ReactOS Community site.
Hope you like this free service!


Previous surprises you may lost:
  1. Surprise of the week: T-shirts are cooming
  2. Surprise of the week: Introduction and Artwork
  3. 1/2 Surprise of the week: Subscriptions are enabled
  4. 1/2 Surprise of the week: USBs are cooming
Thanks IGG campaign to make this possible.
More info

The usb looks nice. Better than I expected.

Hmm. the 'cooming' is deliberate, I presume? Note that no everyone finds deliberate spelling-mistakes funny (I personally don't care, though I think it does get confusing when there are actual spelling-mistakes being made as well).

Also...the pics on the page 'wall of fame' are...too big. I was waiting and waiting for my browser to adapt and go to/show full resolution (you know, like it sometimes happens when just loading a page; it has to adapt itself for a moment), but it kept being artifacted, and I then realised it was never going to get better. But with such low resolution, it becomes ugly when made so big. A far better and easy solution is just to make them smaller, say, in half (well, 1/4th, thus). Then, even with low resolution, they still will seem smooth and crisp.
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by vicmarcal »

Thanks for your suggestions!
Tonix
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 11:33 am

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Tonix »

Webunny wrote:Also...the pics on the page 'wall of fame' are...too big.
I agree, but not only W.O.F. pics are too big...
i found only yesterday that there is a news section scrolling the main page.
it look like a full screen splash page without interesting content under the buttons.

Change "Blog" to "News" and shorten the main image will help.
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by vicmarcal »

Well, Wall Of Fame is too big since the perk is expensive. It's a page that you can visit or that you can not, so if you don't like its pictures sizes...well...you are not forced to watch them.
I've fixed however renamed Blog to News, added an icon-tag so it is more visible and placed next to Home button to enhance its visibility.
The Home page is just a redundant door to enter to the several links in the top, so well, if you just see the header is good enough.
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

vicmarcal wrote:Well, Wall Of Fame is too big since the perk is expensive. It's a page that you can visit or that you can not, so if you don't like its pictures sizes...well...you are not forced to watch them.
What happened to your
vicmarcal wrote:Thanks for your suggestions!
? :geek:

I'm not following you with your remark. "You can visit it or not"? Well...ermm...yes. (duh) So? I'm missing the point. You can decide (or decline) to visit ANY page of ANY website on the internet. It still doesn't change the (frames of the) pictures are too big for the resolutions they have. It makes them full of artefacts and ugly. That is a fact. It has nothing to do with being able to, or wanting to, visit that page or not. I was giving a technical stance/suggestion; you seem to counter it with an emotional or libertarian argument. One can still visit the page or not, when the pictures would be looking good too, so I don't see the argumentational value in it.

As for the perk being expensive...well, reason the more for it to look good, I would say.

You are mistaken if you presume it's my own preference for seeing smaller pictures I want to force on you or that site. I don't really care: I'll visit the page as I see fit anyhow, and I'm not laying awake at night of it. I'm just pointing you to the problem, and saying as it is, and, especially for a wall of fame which is supposed to be the signboard of/for the sponsors, it looks crappy. It just does. It's not merely my 'personal opinion'. Think about it. The first two people commenting on it say exactly the same to you about that. Ask 100 random individuals to look at that page and pictures, and the vast majority will say it doesn't look good, period. You can solve that with making the pictures smaller, or asking everyone for a more high-res picture so you can put that up there in stead. Both possibilities are viable. Or you can leave it as it is, but then it still will look crappy. Your choice.
I've fixed however renamed Blog to News, added an icon-tag so it is more visible and placed next to Home button to enhance its visibility.
The Home page is just a redundant door to enter to the several links in the top, so well, if you just see the header is good enough.
It's an improvement.

How's the shop coming along?
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by vicmarcal »

Regarding the Wall of Fame:

- Two months ago, or so, all the backers which had a WOF perk were contacted requesting them a picture with a specific resolution (width x height). Also, to ease their work we sent them a link to a nice online resizer-cropper so even if they don't use Photoshop/Gimp at all they could satisfy such a request to ensure the quality of the image sent.
- Some of them, however sent us pictures not following the resolution requested. Those who sent us a picture with a bigger resolution than requested were handled personally by me to reduce its size to the proper one. Work++;
- We contacted those who sent us a picture with lower resolution than required asking for a bigger picture or for a picture with the specified size. Since we can't be contacting 3 times the same guy to send us a proper picture, we added a nice line which says: "If you don't answer this email or you don't send us a picture with the proper resolution we'll resample your picture which will become pixelated and lose quality". Work++;
- Some of these backers fixed the issue and sent us a proper picture. Others, however, ignored such email and didn't send us a picture with the needed resolution. We were forced to resample the pictures. Work++;

The result is the one you see in the WOF, some have a decent resolution others do not.

So yes, we have a really nice set of rules to ensure the Quality of all the small pieces which are part of the global post-IndieGoGo ranging from WOF to USBs going through Votings. E.g: We first request an USB sample, which was sent to us, then we made several speed and stress copy/writing tests after performing a visual review of the good itself, we performed any corrections to the designs, and we sent back to the manufacturer to solve the issues detected prior manufacturing all the USBs and before they are shipped.

When I said "Thanks for your suggestion" basically I meant: Sorry Webunny, but the explanation is so long that I don't want to spend my time explaining you why the pictures looks pixelated but you can be sure we did anything in our hands. Basically I tried to avoid the explanation above this paragraph. First because I don't have time, second because saying the pictures looks pixelated as a result of they not sending us a proper picture sounds probably slightly unpolite.

And no, we are not going to reduce the size of the pictures shown because some sent the pictures in a wrong resolution. Neither removing them as they've paid to be there. Also, maybe they want their picture pixelated?Who knows?

The shop is moving forward. Each week a surprise. ;)
Tonix
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 11:33 am

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Tonix »

vicmarcal wrote: The result is the one you see in the WOF, some have a decent resolution others do not.
I don't want to be annoying, but i don't see a single image that is clear.

From what you say, and from the source ( [..] scale(1) [..] /cache/[..].jpg ) ,I think there is an auto-resize option active.

hope this help ;)
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

vicmarcal wrote:Regarding the Wall of Fame:

- Two months ago, or so, all the backers which had a WOF perk were contacted requesting them a picture with a specific resolution (width x height). Also, to ease their work we sent them a link to a nice online resizer-cropper so even if they don't use Photoshop/Gimp at all they could satisfy such a request to ensure the quality of the image sent.
- Some of them, however sent us pictures not following the resolution requested. Those who sent us a picture with a bigger resolution than requested were handled personally by me to reduce its size to the proper one. Work++;
- We contacted those who sent us a picture with lower resolution than required asking for a bigger picture or for a picture with the specified size. Since we can't be contacting 3 times the same guy to send us a proper picture, we added a nice line which says: "If you don't answer this email or you don't send us a picture with the proper resolution we'll resample your picture which will become pixelated and lose quality". Work++;
- Some of these backers fixed the issue and sent us a proper picture. Others, however, ignored such email and didn't send us a picture with the needed resolution. We were forced to resample the pictures. Work++;

The result is the one you see in the WOF, some have a decent resolution others do not.

So yes, we have a really nice set of rules to ensure the Quality of all the small pieces which are part of the global post-IndieGoGo ranging from WOF to USBs going through Votings. E.g: We first request an USB sample, which was sent to us, then we made several speed and stress copy/writing tests after performing a visual review of the good itself, we performed any corrections to the designs, and we sent back to the manufacturer to solve the issues detected prior manufacturing all the USBs and before they are shipped.

When I said "Thanks for your suggestion" basically I meant: Sorry Webunny, but the explanation is so long that I don't want to spend my time explaining you why the pictures looks pixelated but you can be sure we did anything in our hands. Basically I tried to avoid the explanation above this paragraph. First because I don't have time, second because saying the pictures looks pixelated as a result of they not sending us a proper picture sounds probably slightly unpolite.

And no, we are not going to reduce the size of the pictures shown because some sent the pictures in a wrong resolution. Neither removing them as they've paid to be there. Also, maybe they want their picture pixelated?Who knows?

The shop is moving forward. Each week a surprise. ;)

Well, first of all: thanks != sorry

It certainly doesn't imply all what you said there. Normally, 'thanks for the suggestion' just means... giving thanks for the suggestions provided. Period. It even implies you will look into the matter, not do the opposite and ignore it just because you don't feel like giving worthwhile feedback.

Furthermore, if your goal was not to give adequate feedback, you should not have given feedback at all. Because, while you now say you didn't want to go into matters because it would be wasting your busy time, you *did* give arguments, only they didn't make much sense. I should have thought you know me well enough now, that if there is one thing that I react to, it's getting arguments that do not make logically sense. Therefore, you could have foreseen the fact that giving such arguments would lead me to question the validity (if not sanity) of those very same arguments, and that, ultimately, you would need to provide a proper explanation in the end anyway, if you wanted a decent closure of the issue at hand.

I would therefore suggest that, in the future, when you can't be bothered to give a proper response, to - at least - not give arguments that make little to no sense. It's very unlikely I would have gone further into the matter if you just had kept it to 'thanks'. But presenting non-arguments as an explanation *still* wastes your time, AND it also wastes my time as well.

Now that you've actually explained the situation further, I see your problem more clear. And I think you're ignoring the basic issue. Because, let's face it, in the whole post you made, you didn't actually disagree even once it *was*, in reality, pretty ugly and pixelated. So I assume we both agree it is. Yes, you try to minimise it a bit, saying 'some are good and some are bad' and 'maybe they like pixelated pictures', and more of that rubbish. But I'm sure we both know the worth of those arguments. One may reasonably assume that the vast majority DO NOT like pixelated, ugly and far too much enlarged pictures. In fact, most likely, the persons in question either didn't get your request (literally or figuratively), or they didn't care enough to be bothered (which includes 'being too busy'). There is also nothing rude or impolite about that, btw, if it's only stating the facts. If stating a reality on itself is already offensive, I fear for the future of any mature conversation anywhere. The moment one begins to avoid saying what something is in reality in fear of being impolite, one is going down the drain. Impoliteness seldom has to do with the bare facts, but rather with the tone those facts are mentioned and the way it is formulated. And as for 'some have a decent resolution others do not'... I have looked at them all. And no. Not one of them has a decent resolution. Seriously. Not one looked good. Since I'm in the habit of dealing with people that ask IT questions and have problems and, well, often part of the problem lies in the other not comprehending what is meant, let me ask you this first: did you look at that wall of fame with different browsers/PC's/resolutions? Because, if even 'some' pictures look good to you there, there is something going on. Maybe there is some automatic enlargement you are not aware of, then. When I look at it - and I doubt I'm the only one - ALL pictures look pixelated and low-res.

Continuing with the premise that most, if not all pictures there look like crap, and assuming the most logical stance that the vast majority of backers are NOT oversized-pixelloving-fetishists, we come to your (now explained) situation that you feel you 1)can not delete them because they paid for it, 2)have done enough trouble/work in requesting them to give better pictures, 3)you can't make them smaller because 'some' are high-res and looking good even when shown 'large'. But, as you may note, 1)I didn't talk about deleting them, only making them smaller so they look better. 2)I agree that, if you asked 2-3 times, you've done enough, and it's their fault for not providing high-res pictures. 3)This is extremely disputable, since, in fact, there are NO picture there that ain't viewable and obvious pixelated.

However, trying to accommodate your remarks nevertheless, I could suggest that you leave the 'high-res' ones as they are, and only make the low-res ones smaller (maybe with keeping the frame itself as big as now, so you'd get and remain to have a uniform distribution of your layout and pictures, but with all pictures looking good. The hig-res (that are not detectable now) ones in the normal 'full' length/width of the picture-frame, and the low-res ones 1/4 as big within their frame.

That way, all your concerns are addressed. You do not need to delete them. You do not need to mail/ask again for high-res images. You do not have to fear that 'high-res' pictures will get unduly reduced in size. And most importantly, all pictures, and thus the site as a whole, will look much better. I also dare to say the vast majority of your backers would be more pleased with smaller but clearer, better, non-pixelated, readable pictures, than bigger, unreadable, ugly and pixelated pictures. For visitors also, this would be far more appealing.
Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Z98 »

On the contrary, whenever I've seen 'thanks for the suggestion' or used it myself, the only thing that phrase means is a piece of feedback has been seen and possibly noted, albeit in a politely phrased fashion. No promises are ever implied that the feedback would be acted upon. Any such inference you make is of your own devising and not anything we explicitly encouraged. If you prefer we could use the more blunt phrasing of 'we've seen your feedback and will decide whether we find it worthwhile to pursue at our own discretion' when responding to you if you insist on us being more direct and less easily misinterpreted.
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:On the contrary, whenever I've seen 'thanks for the suggestion' or used it myself, the only thing that phrase means is a piece of feedback has been seen and possibly noted, albeit in a politely phrased fashion. No promises are ever implied that the feedback would be acted upon. Any such inference you make is of your own devising and not anything we explicitly encouraged. If you prefer we could use the more blunt phrasing of 'we've seen your feedback and will decide whether we find it worthwhile to pursue at our own discretion' when responding to you if you insist on us being more direct and less easily misinterpreted.
If you read carefully, I didn't say 'and that means a promise that you will act upon it' I said it implies you will look into the matter (aka; gauge it's worth). Which it does imply, otherwise it's no use giving suggestions, nor thanking me for it, if you're going to auto-ignore it anyway or you feel it's too unimportant to bother even looking at (and into) the mentioned issue.

So, basically, you are countering something I didn't claim (aka, straw man fallacy). I can fully agree with you that it does not mean one will or has to act upon it, but that has no relevance to what I said. In fact, it's quite self-evident that one has to decide if one is going to do something about it or not, but for that you need to look into it in the first place. In any case, what 'thanks for the suggestions' normally *does not* imply, is that one means 'Sorry but the explanation is so long that I don't want to spend my time explaining", and it's a stretch to expect anyone reading that in an an honestly meant 'thank you'. In fact, it's almost a persiflage on it.

Content-wise, my post offers pretty strong points, and it's not like I didn't suggest ways of addressing the concerns raised. It still doesn't mean you have to act upon it, obviously, but one can not deny it then remains a page of over-enlarged pixelated pictures, which doesn't look good.
Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Z98 »

The tendency that those of us on that project that interact with you generally see is that short of actually adopting your suggestion, you always believe that your ideas are not given sufficient attention or consideration. You continuously press on topics, adding increasing amounts of overly verbose text that often boils down to how, if we would only consider things from your point of view, we would realize how reasonable you are being and how good your ideas are. You are often unwilling to accept the position that, regardless of whatever merit you personally consider something to be, the relative merit that the project sees may be drastically different or lower. When you encounter such a situation, your response is not to back off but instead spend more time trying to argue your point, coming up with new rationales for why your idea is so good, and that it is only natural that the topic cannot be closed because it can only be closed when your idea is adopted. The few times when a member of the team got sufficiently irritated enough at you to tell you to stop, you hide behind some point about how you have an obligation to make your voice be heard and that attempting to stifle you is an affront to the open nature of the project. And every time you do this, every time you piss off one of us with your insistence, every time you are unable to just accept a 'no' and move on, you decrease your overall credibility with us and make us that less willing to bother considering your views because we know what's waiting for us if we take any sort of interest. If you still do not understand how problematic that is, then consider this. You are bordering very closely to the point where all of the team members that frequent the forum will automatically turn a blind eye at anything you say because they do not feel that any benefit that may come from interacting with you is not worth the time and energy they must expend in the process. If you persist as you currently do, then your proposals really will end up as ignored as you constantly complain about them being.
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:The tendency that those of us on that project that interact with you generally see is that short of actually adopting your suggestion, you always believe that your ideas are not given sufficient attention or consideration. You continuously press on topics, adding increasing amounts of overly verbose text that often boils down to how, if we would only consider things from your point of view, we would realize how reasonable you are being and how good your ideas are. You are often unwilling to accept the position that, regardless of whatever merit you personally consider something to be, the relative merit that the project sees may be drastically different or lower. When you encounter such a situation, your response is not to back off but instead spend more time trying to argue your point, coming up with new rationales for why your idea is so good, and that it is only natural that the topic cannot be closed because it can only be closed when your idea is adopted. The few times when a member of the team got sufficiently irritated enough at you to tell you to stop, you hide behind some point about how you have an obligation to make your voice be heard and that attempting to stifle you is an affront to the open nature of the project. And every time you do this, every time you piss off one of us with your insistence, every time you are unable to just accept a 'no' and move on, you decrease your overall credibility with us and make us that less willing to bother considering your views because we know what's waiting for us if we take any sort of interest. If you still do not understand how problematic that is, then consider this. You are bordering very closely to the point where all of the team members that frequent the forum will automatically turn a blind eye at anything you say because they do not feel that any benefit that may come from interacting with you is not worth the time and energy they must expend in the process. If you persist as you currently do, then your proposals really will end up as ignored as you constantly complain about them being.
I think this stems from the fact that you guys often do not give much sensible arguments on it. Let me give you an analogue example: if you would present a car and ask for input (and Vic did ask for input for his site, in analogy), and I say; "well, it looks allright, but the tires are rather worn, you better change them" and then the answer comes with as argument: "well, you can always choose not to go into the car", then it *obviously* makes no sense as an argument. If I point that out, one can say: "oh, but you always insist in being right'...well...it's because it's rather straightforward, isn't it? Now, it could be one HAS a valid argument, but if you're not telling me, than I can't know. Also, if you give counterarguments that can be remedied, like, say "but we can't find other tires', and I say :"well, you can find other tires over there in that shop", it then makes little sense to say "You see, that's what annoying about you; you always want us to adopt your suggestions!".

Well, no, I don't. But if you give reasons for why you are NOT able to do something, and I try to accommodate those reasons, that's called helping, not wanting to 'force my suggestion'. You're still free to do with it as you want, since it's your car, but you can't just claim it's 'impossible to get new tires' when I've just pointed out a way to get new tires. It could be, you DO NOT WANT new tires and think the old tires are still brand new. That's something else. But I didn't see anyone, including victor or you, claim that the Wall-of-fame page contained crisp images which looked good. Not once. So, one might reasonably assume that you agree with the basic tenet of the claim, namely that the pics are oversized and don't look good on that page. Now, it may be that, as you say 'the relative merit that the project sees may be drastically lower' than me. But why not say that outright, then? Why all the pseudo-arguments? If you just said: "Well, Webunny, you're right that it doesn't look good, but I can't really spare the time" that's a whole other argument than saying "Some of them DO look good" (which they don't) or "Not all people send high-res pictures".

However, if the argument is now that you don't want to invest time in something you deem of lesser importance, I could then offer to help resize the pictures myself and help out that way, then. You, AGAIN, could be saying "you see, you don't want to back off"...but...that's just because I try to come up with a way to address the points you yourselves raised. You know, to deal with the reasons (you said) the pictures (or in the analogy the tires) don't get changed. So if I complain about anything, it's not because I want to 'hide' behind libertarian and free speech concepts. (Which I'm a bit offended by that, since I do not 'hide' behind that point, I actually adhere to it as much as I can, also for myself and towards others, even if I find them irritating. Or did you miss my suggestions in threads of others where some people were really quick in calling for banning that person and such, while I was saying he had a right to say his opinion? Did I AT ANY TIME claimed someone couldn't give his opinion to me, or chastised him/her for doing so? I'm not saying I agreed, I'm saying whether or not I only use the free speech/libertarian doctrine when it suits me, and not when somebody else uses it (aka, the 'hiding behind'). I think you'll find that to not be the case.) No, if I do so, it's because I actually think it has inherent worth, and it's not something I use to 'hide behind' it.

Basically, I look at the arguments presented, and try to come up with ways that those counterarguments can be remedied. That this is considered to be irritating and 'pushy' strikes me as weird, since it are the arguments YOU YOURSELVES give as the reasons why you can't change it. So, unless one wants to claim that the current result is actually something one wanted and is, in fact, the desired effect looked for, one should rather appreciate that I give ways to deal with the obstacles one claims is preventing one to actually improve on it. However, as I said, it seems we are in agreement that the page/pictures in question doesn't look very good. So it can't be considered a desirable effect (if it is, you just have to say *that*, instead of giving arguments why it's not possible). If it isn't a desirable effect, but you give arguments why it is like that anyway (aka; we can't make it smaller because we also have high-res pictures which can be shown larger), then if I give you a way out, to circumvent that objection (aka, only make the low-res pictures smaller then, within their normal frame), one should rather consider that properly, instead of giving a lecture about how I 'don't back off'. Because, you know, I thought it's rather a matter of how to get the obstacles raised out of our way, instead of ego-tripping about whom is backing off from whom.


In conclusion, I have no problem with someone saying "We prefer a car with worn tires" or "We prefer a page that looks ugly and is full of over-sized pictures that are pixelated". But I didn't see you say that. Not even once. So, maybe we should make that explicitly clear from the start: Do you, or don't you, agree the (pictures on) that page doesn't look very appealing, or, at least, won't be regarded to be looking good by the majority of people visiting that page? Can I have a clear answer to that? (Not the, "but we find it 'less' important than you", but just the basic fact if you feel it could be improved upon or not).

Once that is established, it goes for reason that one looks at the issues and obstacles one deems is prohibiting to properly deal with the issue, and give those arguments. And you (well, Vic) did give those objections. And I tried to remedy them. You deem that being pushy. Well, ermm? No, it's suggesting ways to deal with the objections given. If you feel they are not adequate, then say why, don't begin lecturing people that point out problems and the solutions for them. On the other hand, if the REAL issue is, that you think I have a point and my suggestions are worthwhile, but you don't have time to implement them, then say so as well. I would offer to do it for you, then. (Note: I'm talking about this specific issue) This, neither, would be 'being pushy', just dealing with the objection(s) raised. As long as there is the recognition that the site doesn't look good, and the objections raised are dealt with it, I don't see a reason why one would feel annoyed by anyone pointing these things out. This would be true whether or not the problem is seen as 'major' or 'minor' (btw, I don't see it as overly important neither, if you might think that). But a minor improvement is still an improvement. So it is still desirable. If it is, and the objections raised are dealt with, then what's the problem? All this talk about how I don't just lie my head down when I hear an argument or objection from the devs, is really nonsensical. It goes against the very reason why people give argumental objections; namely to find a solution to them (well, unless it's about egotripping). I repeat, once one recognises the webpage can use some improvements, it's only natural to look at ways to do that, and try to deal with the arguments/objections that prohibits doing so.
Last edited by Webunny on Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by vicmarcal »

Well, Webunny,
Lets make this short and concise:
1) This thread was about the Community Newsletter, however you pushed several suggestions about the website which I thank but it's not the proper thread, to begin with.
2) My answer was short and concise "Thanks for your suggestions" basically to avoid writing a long answer (as explained) and because I know that after my explanation showing you that right now it is not a priority in my current todo list, you will be striking it should be, with a lengthy post which won't lead us to somewhere since it is not a priority for me now. Or let's say the other way around: The tasks in my todo list are way more important than fixing a pixelation. Yes I mean: The Shop, the Voting results, the Hiring, the Job tab, the Community first isos, the Betatester section, etc, etc, etc.
3) Is fixing the pixelation important? Sure it is, however when the website manpower reduces to 2 hands, 1 head and 24 hours at day, I'm forced to prioritize the TODO list.
4) Do I have time to create a whole site from scratch, add new features, add a shop, create a blogpost once at week and at the same time dealing with long posts?Sadly nope. I don't know if you realized that the Community site has right now more features, in just 3 months, than the current Drupal site which took more than 3 years. I was able to made all of these features in such tiny time thanks to correct prioritization. I wish I have time to fix any issues happening. Since until now the work explains by itself, I'll keep my way of prioritizing.
5) Instead answering you, as Z and others did, I used such time to fix the pixelation issue. Hope you don't mind if I didn't read your answers. Now the issue is solved. I'll read your answers asap when my prioritization list have an empty space.

Thanks.

And now: This thread is about Community Newsletter.
Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: [News]: Community Newsletters. Keep informed!

Post by Webunny »

vicmarcal wrote:Well, Webunny,
Lets make this short and concise:
1) This thread was about the Community Newsletter, however you pushed several suggestions about the website which I thank but it's not the proper thread, to begin with.
2) My answer was short and concise "Thanks for your suggestions" basically to avoid writing a long answer (as explained) and because I know that after my explanation showing you that right now it is not a priority in my current todo list, you will be striking it should be, with a lengthy post which won't lead us to somewhere since it is not a priority for me now. Or let's say the other way around: The tasks in my todo list are way more important than fixing a pixelation. Yes I mean: The Shop, the Voting results, the Hiring, the Job tab, the Community first isos, the Betatester section, etc, etc, etc.
3) Is fixing the pixelation important? Sure it is, however when the website manpower reduces to 2 hands, 1 head and 24 hours at day, I'm forced to prioritize the TODO list.
4) Do I have time to create a whole site from scratch, add new features, add a shop, create a blogpost once at week and at the same time dealing with long posts?Sadly nope. I don't know if you realized that the Community site has right now more features, in just 3 months, than the current Drupal site which took more than 3 years. I was able to made all of these features in such tiny time thanks to correct prioritization. I wish I have time to fix any issues happening. Since until now the work explains by itself, I'll keep my way of prioritizing.
5) Instead answering you, as Z and others did, I used such time to fix the pixelation issue. Hope you don't mind if I didn't read your answers. Now the issue is solved. I'll read your answers asap when my prioritization list have an empty space.

Thanks.

And now: This thread is about Community Newsletter.
1)I didn't push, I pointed it out.True that it wasn't directly about the newspaper. I noticed it 'then', when visiting it, so I thought it useful to point this out 'then' too (aka, here in this thread). I could mayhaps have started a new thread about it or something, agreed, but it doesn't seem like it's so overly off-topic that it becomes a major issue or burden, since it still dealt with improving the site. Imho, of course.
2)I didn't have any problems with that particular response. It was rather with the one after that, which contained arguments that weren't making much (logical) sense. That's not because I find you irritating - as apparently the devs let them lead by these feelings, if I'm to believe z98 (which isn't very professional in the first place) - but because the arguments given back then *were* just not making much sense. I base my reaction on the arguments, thus, not on the person. I wish more people did that.
3)Certainly, and I fully understand that. I never said anything that would dispute such a thing neither. And if the argumentation had been: "Yes, you're right, but I'm short handed" I would have thought that a good reason, and probably offered to do it for you, in this particular instance. Half of the actual arguments given were irrelevant, however, and the other half were other objections I suggested how to overcome.
4)That's basically the same point as above. In essence, you have much work and you have to prioritise things. I understand that. That's something else than saying 'you can always choose NOT to go the the page', however. Or 'some might like the pixelation'. Or 'there are high-res who do look good' when there really aren't, etc. Recognising the issue as being valid, but saying you will look later into the matter, is something else than what you argumented and answered with in the above posts.
5)I don't mind at all. Note, however, that it WAS thanks to me pointing it out that you took note (and now action). I'm not saying this to look down on the work you did and put into it, just as a factual reminder that, indeed, what I say isn't just to 'push my agenda' and can actually be useful, if one thinks about it logically. It's not just about 'my view on the merit', as z98 implies in his post. You may read my posts as you see fit and when you have time, but just as with this one, there often will be a real issue underlying it or helpful suggestion in it. Since you have now adequately dealt with the problem I pointed out, I may presume it wasn't all that low on the prioritisation-list neither. So *not* reading the answers could potentially be problematic too, but I guess it's a trade-off. As a whole, I do agree that, once a problem is pointed out, it's more important to deal with it, than just keep talking about it. But then again, one doesn't need to talk about it if there wasn't a problem in the first place.


As far as the work done, especially, but not solely, on the wall-fame-page: it has much, much improved, Vic. Good work. I mean it. Now, indeed, you DO have high-res pics. Which leads me to believe (or at least presume) there WAS indeed, something wrong with it (the system, the uploading of the pics, auto-resizing, etc.), since it's clear there were no high-res pictures there when it was first shown. Not one looked good, contrary to what was claimed. Now, the vast majority *do* look pretty good. I'm glad the issue was straightened out, and I don't see why all the rather confrontational posts (especially of z98) were necessary. I'm sure everyone will agree the page looks far better now, so was I wrong in pointing the issue out? Me thinks not. If what I say truly had no merit except in 'my own eyes', I'm pretty sure the page would still be as it was.

If I find other points for potential improvements, I'll say it too. If and when you decide to look at that, is, of course, up to you. But just as with this one, you might come to the conclusion I have a valid point (which otherwise might escape your attention). And if you DO think it's valid, but are shorthanded, please feel free to point this out as the main argument against changing it, instead of using some irrelevant or ephemeral ones. If I feel like it, I might offer a helping hand to solve those specific cases. I can't promise you a general 'helping hand', because not everything interest me equally, and I don't feel like I should offer a general 'helping with the site' commitment when I know in front I'm not able to do that. I'm sure you prefer clear commitments. That said, for specific topics which might interest me, like when/if you're going to have your RCE wall-paper contest, you can always ask me if I want to help you with it, rest assured.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DotBot [Crawler] and 42 guests