16-bit Windows Program Support

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it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:25 pm

Yes, it is the NTVDM. If only we improve it enough to support Win16.

Forever Winter
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by Forever Winter » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:06 pm

Blackcrack wrote:(this was also programmed from snatch like i guess, or ? ) ("snatch" it's the right word ?)
I guess, the word you mean is scratch. The Win16 subsystem from OS/2 was not programmed from scratch. It is a slightly modified version of Windows 3.x runing in a DOS VDM.
it2pivincent wrote:Win16 support would be the best right now.
Or you concentrate on finishing DOS support first, because than you can just run a copy of Windows 3.1 or whatever else version you like in a VDM.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:06 pm

because than you can just run a copy of Windows 3.1
We can support Win16 via NTVDM jsut like Windows NT, however, we just need to program it to support Win16.

Not everyone would want to put old versions of Windows on ReactOS, because it supports DOS, for old games, and Win32, which is needed for newer programs.

Forever Winter
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by Forever Winter » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:23 pm

Yes, I am well aware of this. It's just that 16-bit Windows needs DOS as a base. It doesn't realy matter if it is a "real" Windows or a Version for WOW (Even if the 16-bit system
itself doesn't call any DOS functions, the applications still can do it), so you need it anyway. Now starting to implement a half-baked WOW on top of a half-baked DOS instead
of first finishing the base seems to be a bit odd, since you can run 16-bit applications in both cases anyway. With the difference that you can get more potentially non-working
programs in the first case.

And by the way, I think that the DOS emulation from ReactOS is meant to be a generic DOS emulation, not just one for games.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:29 pm

The NTVDM in Windows supports WOW16. ReactOS will need this to support Win16 programs.

We just need to work on NTVDM not try to install Windows 3.x or have a Win16 Mode.
Just, work on ReactOS's NTVDM.

middings
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by middings » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:18 am

it2pivincent wrote:Why can't ReactOS have 16-bit Windows Program Support?
A FAQ is a good place for this question and its technical answer. Perhaps the question could be changed to "Why the ReactOS project will not work on adding support for 16-bit Windows programs...".

Forever Winter
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by Forever Winter » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:58 am

it2pivincent wrote:The NTVDM in Windows supports WOW16. ReactOS will need this to support Win16 programs.

We just need to work on NTVDM not try to install Windows 3.x or have a Win16 Mode.
Just, work on ReactOS's NTVDM.
16-bit Windows is DOS based. This means, you need to support DOS before you can support 16-bit Windows. It does not matter if the 16-bit Windows runs under WOW or
if it is a copy of Windows 3.1 running under a DOS prompt, you need a DOS system in both cases, because that is the way the system is designed. The consequence is,
that missing compatibility with DOS is also missing compatibility with 16-bit Windows. Because things are that way, it makes more sense to first finish DOS support,
start WOW support thereafter and use Windows 3.1 in a DOS box meanwhile.

EmuandCo
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by EmuandCo » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:59 am

Thats why Win 3.1 is a testing app in NTVDM. As soon as this one works rather fine, we are at least set in theory to have a wow16.dll ^^
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ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:01 am

So, if we get Windows 3.x working in ReactOS, we can work on bringing 16-bit apps to the project?

EmuandCo
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by EmuandCo » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:20 am

Nope. 16 bit code won't be included into ROS' Code at all. We just add support for 3rd party apps. Win2003 has no 16 bit apps and does not need it at all, neither do we.
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:33 pm

If Windows Server 2003 supports 16-bit apps then why not us?

I think ReactOS would be better if it supports it.

Support for 16-bit apps will give us more apps support and more Windows Server 2003 like if we add 16-bit app support.

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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by EmuandCo » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:43 pm

You did not read my answer, right?
-> WE ADD SUPPORT <-. But -> WE DO NOT ADD <- 16 bit apps in our code base because we do not need em. If I misunderstood your post before, sorry for that. Otherwise your answer is @ the beginning of that post
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:27 pm

Doesn't Windows Server 2003 support Win16??

I don't think you are listening correctly

Z98
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by Z98 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:46 pm

Daniel, might want to watch your blood pressure there.

Vincent, you need to read much more carefully and be a lot more explicit in your posts. The way you worded one of your earlier posts implies you want 16bit applications bundled in ReactOS itself. That will never happen. The posts that you wrote after that seemed to imply you were only talking about support for such software and not bundling. Daniel tried to clarify that, and you completely misread him.

it2pivincent
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Re: 16-bit Windows Program Support

Post by it2pivincent » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:04 pm

I just want to know if Windows Server 2003 will run 16-bit programs.

If ReactOS is going to be like Windows Server 2003 (or other versions of 32-bit Windows), then we just need to work on the NTVDM.

I didn't mean to cause confusion about 16-bit apps coming to ReactOS, I just want to run them in ReactOS. If we can't make that happen, why not a different method.

I'm sorry if I misspoken, I been social as much and I would like to see this project improve to replace other Closed-Source OSes like Windows.

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