I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly.

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lil Joshu
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I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly.

Post by lil Joshu »

Microsoft, as many are aware is in various stages of ending/has-ended support for Windows 7, 8, and earlier.

Now, many people have not "upgraded" to Microsoft's latest and spy-iest, but most people are pushed to go with the latest because "mah securitiees."

So, here's the thought - in making ReactOS, the team is working on a lot of replacements for core windows files. Unlike MS, there's no hidden spyware or hacks for special clients making ReactOS's files more secure than Windows's files. Further, ReactOS is still getting updated and will likely continue to get updated. So why not... just take over windows updates?

Now, obviously, I don't mean hack people's computers (that'd be legal suicide), but simply offer a minimal paid subscription for ReactOS updates for Windows? So when a file is fully tested and able to replace the windows version, the ReactOS-updater replaces windows files (or previously installed ReactOS files) with ReactOS's latest and greatest, and also, as a result, any Windows User can seamlessly migrate over time from Windows into ReactOS. It'd mean more reliable income for the ReactOS team, and also a much wider testing spectrum, "You updated X and now my usb-powered potato cannon doesn't work!" Further, it gives a reason for a lot of corporates that wouldn't glance twice at ReactOS all of a sudden give it some interest (You mean, rather than change out our ENTIRE operating system to get security updates again, which would mean refactoring ALL of our code, we can just pay a subscription to ReactOS and everything continues without issue?)

Just thought the ReactOS team might like having the idea.
lil Joshu
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by lil Joshu »

By the way, if ReactOS DID do this, I'm ready and willing to be one of the first home subscribers (assuming a reasonable price). Also, I would totally suggest it to my team at work.
middings
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by middings »

Your idea is clever. Yet it may not be practical because ReactOS does not reproduce the internal bits of Microsoft Windows file-for-file. Even if that could be overcome, subtle interoperability problems could occur because of implementation differences between ReactOS and Windows. ReactOS cannot peek into Microsoft's code to verify that the internal parts of ReactOS reproduce the Microsoft implementation on the other side of the published APIs. Any member of the development team knows more about this than I do.

Also, IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and I believe Microsoft's license might be an impediment to your clever plan. IIRC (if I recall correctly), Microsoft's license does not permit modifying Windows in order to gain the features of another version of Windows. External utility, yes; internal mods, no. The ReactOS compatibility target is Windows Server 2003. One could argue that swapping ReactOS code with (for example) Windows XP Professional code on a production machine risks violating Microsoft's license.

Finally, accepting money for such mods can create huge product liability problems for the ReactOS Foundation. Never mind the USB spud launcher, what if someone modifies Windows for Warships and a bug corrupts data? (Again, IANAL.)

P.S. Avoid embarrassment. A newcomer to any forum, mailing list, or chat room should look for the local rules before posting.
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Last edited by middings on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ROCKNROLLKID
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by ROCKNROLLKID »

Also, you should note that Microsoft is many, many years ahead in marketing, too, and most computers ship with Windows installed. Most people are really attached to Windows and don't usually want to change to a new one because they are afraid of what to expect, even if it is free.

I like what they are doing now, instead of selling ReactOS, they have a shop and sell other items and use that money to fund ReactOS, as well as donations. If you are so willing to buy ReactOS as a price, maybe instead you would be interested in buying some items off the shop here: https://shop.spreadshirt.de/reactos or maybe just donate some money (you can think of it as you just bought ReactOS then) https://www.reactos.org/donating.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by dizt3mp3r »

middings wrote: Microsoft's license does not permit modifying Windows in order to gain the features of another version of Windows.
Does that licence restriction extend to something like swapping windows task manager in Win 10 for the one in win 7?
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Code from ReactOS is already mooted as a replacement for certain groups who want specific functionality (sound &c) , some want to move ReactOS explorer over in its entireity so that they can obtain a more familar shell. The trouble is that ReactOS is developed piecemeal and so little of it is ready for production usage. In general people work on that bit that interests them so it progresses slowly in the right direction, pulling itself into a more healthy shape.

I agree that it might focus minds and allow the replacement of Windows chunk by chunk, or perhaps nibble by nibble. It could be an idea to work on an area of ReactOS where Windows in it's older guises is weak, where an easy (?) replacement is technically possible, discrete utilities perhaps?

Packaging those and allowing them to be made available for free might introduce more people to the idea of ReactOS as bits of their old Windows are swapped out...

ReactOS is getting toward that point where it seems that discrete components are actually working...
Just a thought. Nothing more.
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
middings
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by middings »

dizt3mp3r wrote:Does that licence restriction extend to something like swapping windows task manager in Win 10 for the one in win 7?
I don't know. I am not a lawyer and I was only going by my recollection of Microsoft's Windows XP license. One must read the license and obtain legal advice to know for sure.
dizt3mp3r wrote:Code from ReactOS is already mooted as a replacement for certain groups who want specific functionality (sound &c) , some want to move ReactOS explorer over in its entirety so that they can obtain a more familiar shell. ... Packaging those and allowing them to be made available for free might introduce more people to the idea of ReactOS as bits of their old Windows are swapped out... ... Just a thought. Nothing more.
Your idea is good and waits for someone with the necessary software skills and the desire to do such work to come along.
lil Joshu
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by lil Joshu »

middings wrote:Yet it may not be practical because ReactOS does not reproduce the internal bits of Microsoft Windows file-for-file.
Then maybe group of files by group of files then? Sorry if it's not reflective of the source code layout, I haven't actually dug into ReactOS's source code.
middings wrote:Microsoft's license does not permit modifying Windows in order to gain the features of another version of Windows.
Technically it'd be adding the features of ReactOS. As far as I can tell, that part of the license is more talking that you can't drop in Win10's System32 folder into Win7. Again, I'm not a lawyer either (although I have done coding for a mostly legal-firm one and got way too much legal info on the topic so I got better at reading contracts and such, but on the flip side, that was geared more towards real estate law than license agreements.)
MadWolf
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by MadWolf »

lil Joshu wrote:Microsoft, as many are aware is in various stages of ending/has-ended support for Windows 7, 8, and earlier.
not according to https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/hel ... fact-sheet

Windows Vista
Latest update or service pack
Service Pack 2
End of mainstream support
April 10, 2012
End of extended support
April 11, 2017

Windows 7*
Latest update or service pack 
Service Pack 1
End of mainstream support
January 13, 2015
End of extended support
January 14, 2020

Windows 8
Latest update or service pack
Windows 8.1
End of mainstream support
January 9, 2018
End of extended support
January 10, 2023

using reactos files in windows imho not recommended unless you are trying to get a game of software running then i recommend only copying the files to the software or game install directory and not in to the system directories
lil Joshu
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by lil Joshu »

Like I said, various stages of ending/ended. Mainstream support for Vista and 7 is over, XP and earlier is done and over with altogether (despite many servers still running on the XP architecture), etc.
MadWolf wrote:
lil Joshu wrote:Microsoft, as many are aware is in various stages of ending/has-ended support for Windows 7, 8, and earlier.
not according to https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/hel ... fact-sheet

Windows Vista
Latest update or service pack
Service Pack 2
End of mainstream support
April 10, 2012
End of extended support
April 11, 2017

Windows 7*
Latest update or service pack 
Service Pack 1
End of mainstream support
January 13, 2015
End of extended support
January 14, 2020

Windows 8
Latest update or service pack
Windows 8.1
End of mainstream support
January 9, 2018
End of extended support
January 10, 2023

using reactos files in windows imho not recommended unless you are trying to get a game of software running then i recommend only copying the files to the software or game install directory and not in to the system directories
erkinalp
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by erkinalp »

No, although compatible, Microsoft Windows and ReactOS are different OSs, that kind of crossgrade might be problematic as some software checking licence status will stop and some ReactOS-only software will begin to work.
-uses Ubuntu+GNOME 3 GNU/Linux
-likes Free (as in freedom) and Open Source Detergents
-favors open source of Windows 10 under GPL2
reactosuser7
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by reactosuser7 »

lil Joshu wrote:Microsoft, as many are aware is in various stages of ending/has-ended support for Windows 7, 8, and earlier.

Now, many people have not "upgraded" to Microsoft's latest and spy-iest, but most people are pushed to go with the latest because "mah securitiees."

So, here's the thought - in making ReactOS, the team is working on a lot of replacements for core windows files. Unlike MS, there's no hidden spyware or hacks for special clients making ReactOS's files more secure than Windows's files. Further, ReactOS is still getting updated and will likely continue to get updated. So why not... just take over windows updates?
Well it is time from here to a few years to make ReactOS usable enough.

We should work all people available to get it.
ROCKNROLLKID
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by ROCKNROLLKID »

As I said before, if you are so willing to buy ReactOS, why not just donate money to the team right now. It would be the same thing anyways.
PurpleGurl
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Location: USA

Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by PurpleGurl »

A similar idea on another site was to make a special ROS edition/fork that is for licensed Windows XP/2003 users. The idea is to use the original Windows .cab files that end users supply to drop in what is not finished in ROS yet. If that breaks things, then that would be the chance to do things more the WIndows way, and as more ROS files are ready, they can be included and the Windows dependency decreases until no Windows files are needed. This approach doesn't call home to ReactOS, Windows, nor anywhere else.

Still, this leaves the licensing questions of before, and nothing can be guaranteed in terms of stability.
milon
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Re: I recommend ReactOS taking over Windows... more directly

Post by milon »

I really doubt the project could create or even endorse such an approach without getting into legal trouble with MS.

Example:
A year or two ago I read through the EULA for their .NET platform to see if it could legally be run on ReactOS. My reading of the EULA (I'm no expert, of course) lead me to believe that installing/running .NET on a non-MS platform would be a violation of the EULA/TOS/license/etc. If that's true, ReactOS certainly cannot endorse that approach. (Of course, what end users do on their own is completely up to them and does not reflect on ReactOS.)

I suspect MS uses such restrictive licensing for ALL their code.
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