ReactOS and QubesOS

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jeeppler
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ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by jeeppler »

QubesOS is a security and privacy focused operating system. It uses the Xen hypervisor to isolate different domains from each other. Domains are basically virtual machines which contain applications and information for a specific use case such as email or work. This approach increases the security, because malware or attacker can only gain access to a limited set of information (e.g. documents or emails) instead of the complete system. In addition, Qubes OS has several other security features.
Qubes OS can run Windows systems. However, running a closed source operating system like Windows is a security, privacy and legal problem for Qubes OS. ReactOS is an interesting alternative to Windows for several reasons Joanna Rutkowska, one of the core developer/researcher behind QubesOS, pointed out in this issue: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2809

There is already a JIRA ticket regarding the integration and collaboration between ReactOS and QubesOS: https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-13358

What does the ReactOS community think about a collaboration between ReactOS and QubesOS?
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EmuandCo
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by EmuandCo »

This is in internal discussion right now. But tbh it's one of the most interesting offers for collaboration we got till today.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
val
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by val »

there is no more parasitic and wasting thing as hardware virtualization. it's just a black hole sucking everything into nothing, both power watts and developer resources.
I saw that miss(is) Rutkowska has also an article called "x86 considered harmful". Right. To get yourselves messing up with such projects is the best way to waste your time. It's a caricature style vaporware and shitware.
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gonzoMD
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by gonzoMD »

Isn't the same said about us by many people? Well. I think there can be no better base for collaboration.

Sarcasm off...
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by dizt3mp3r »

val wrote:there is no more parasitic and wasting thing as hardware virtualization. it's just a black hole sucking everything into nothing, both power watts and developer resources.
That is just NOT true. Val your views in general are weird, expressed vindictively and they don't really add to the discussion.

Hardware virtualisation is often/always(?) incredibly useful and often the best way of achieving a running system. You can't generalise about a few misuse cases.

For instance, take the virtualisation of RoS for testing purposes or the running of virtual legacy hardware for essential applications where the legacy hardware cannot be trusted anymore due to age.

Collaboration of this type shows that ReactOS is maturing to a state where it is beginning to be taken seriously as an o/s in its own right. The more of this sort of exposure the better.
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val
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by val »

strange duplicate deleted.
Last edited by val on Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
val
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by val »

it was not about "testing and debugging use cases" at all. but even with those, you are testing and debugging virtual environments and their quirks, not hardware's ones. I highly doubt their vision is to suply you with some retro emulation tool set. No, they are fighting Intel, lol. And clearly think HV is a good thing on "big iron". Which isn't. It's a very bad tendency that HV made its way there. frustrated one.

and relax, given what those people are talking about ("x86 considered harmful" yup, yet other geniuses know-it-all), they are of zero benefit for anybody, with them includingly. It's just yet another masturbation with Xen source sauced with loud [s]fartings[/s] statements. xD
Isn't the same said about us by many people? Well. I think there can be no better base for collaboration.
They will bring the distressful USB stack here, or NTFS, or Blutooth? they won't, even "virtualized" ones.
Val your views in general are weird, expressed vindictively and they don't really add to the discussion.
pardon, this is exactly what could be said about your posts. even though we both are totally useless for the project, our rantings on the forum hardly could hurt anyone.
Everyone could easily ignore what they think is not for them, couldn't they? Could you try just ignore what you see as "weird" and "vindictive" for you?

I dislike HV very much, so I don't omit a possibilty to tell the world about this. lol.
Last edited by val on Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Well at least I understood that post! :)
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JHKr0md1yk
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by JHKr0md1yk »

val wrote:there is no more parasitic and wasting thing as hardware virtualization. it's just a black hole sucking everything into nothing, both power watts and developer resources.
I saw that miss(is) Rutkowska has also an article called "x86 considered harmful". Right. To get yourselves messing up with such projects is the best way to waste your time. It's a caricature style vaporware and shitware.
And here's the cool thing about ReactOS; by having the source code available under the GPLv2 license one can take the source tree and build it for CPU ISAs other than x86(_64), like ARM(64) for example. One is no longer tied to x86(_64) thus eliminating Joanna Rutkowska's nr.1 issue with Intel CPUs; de Intel Management Engine (The same goes for AMD's AGESA and the PSP). As the recent Intel AMT h(ij)ack hase demonstrated, running a CPU with a closed-source binary-blob micro-OS within a CPU has turned out to be a BAD idea, hence the push for OpenPOWER and RISC-V from their respective consortia and communities. ReactOS would be able to be installed on HW platforms of any CPU ISA, providing the end user with possible full control of the stack, from the CPU Management Engine and Motherboard Firmware to the main OS, which also happens to be Windows NT based :ugeek: :D . Sounds like Win-Win to me (pun not intended).

This has nothing to do with Hardware-Assisted Virtualization or firmware architectures at all. In fact, your idea of HW-assisted Virtualization being parasitic and wastefull is demonstrably wrong; it can actually be extremely helpful getting decent HW support from the ground. I recommend you to read the ReactOS meeting minutes of April 2017 highlighting this. The project team has elected to use and turn my former server rig into a test bed for video cards. Using VTx, VTd and direct PCIE Passthrough (Discrete Device Assignment in NT parlance), they plan on creating 2 VMs, each for one video card, in which ROS would be installed with the assigned video card's native driver. This way, they can test the HW and the native driver, without hosing the Host OS if ReactOS BSODs due to bugs.

If you want to talk about how ""bad"" x86(_64) Virtualization is, I suggest you take up the issue with both Intel and AMD. Intel, for not fixing the erroneous behavior of several privilege sensitive instructions (think SGDT, SLDT, SIDT and their ilk) until now with UMIP. But AMD even more; Sunnyvale really really screwed the pooch with their development of AMD64, in which they reduced the 4 privilege rings to a measly 2 instead of keeping them, or even better increasing them to 8, but I digress; and castrating the memory protection technique "segmentation" by forcing the segment bases to 0 and their limits to FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. The Xen wiki has an in-depth article about this; please, do read.
alexei
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by alexei »

val wrote:there is no more parasitic and wasting thing as hardware virtualization. it's just a black hole sucking everything into nothing, both power watts and developer resources.
I saw that miss(is) Rutkowska has also an article called "x86 considered harmful". Right. To get yourselves messing up with such projects is the best way to waste your time. It's a caricature style vaporware and shitware.
I don't post often, but when I saw val's outrageous post it triggered immediate response.
Moderators, can you please ban val for being complete idiot ? I believe the word "idiot" is appropriate here, as we alreday have "shitware" in val's post. Maybe a poll on such decision would be a good idea :lol:

So far, we have pretty poor situation with cybersecurity. "Hackers are vinning", google it. Situation with computer/internet privacy is even worse. Qubes OS seems to be the most safe/secure/private OS available to "regular" end-users today. Period.

Collaboration between ROS and Qubes OS would be very useful for many reasons, though most likely after ROS went beta.
For now, ROS community is, understandably, not concerned with cybersecurity (at least, as I see it).

BTW, in my personal view, Qubes OS is only the first step in the right direction. I think each application / application suite / driver should run on a designated VM (to be precise: in Virtualized Execution Environment) and all VMs ever connected to the network (even if such connection was handled by another VM) have to be discarded afer use, though I don't want to elaborate this concept here.

UEFI/EFI may be spying on you, WiFi is easy to hack, and you don't know about back doors in proprietary drivers on your PC :(
Can you trust Microsoft? Can you trust Intel?
The only "relief" is that your ISP is spying on you anways :lol:

FYI, I remember the article about research on creation of altered chip clones indistinguishable from originals in x-rays.
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val
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by val »

but when I saw val's outrageous post it triggered immediate response.
Well I am sorry that my post triggered you and you had to emit your disturbed fantasies about Intel and Microsoft spying on you through your broken ... WiFi. and all that... Yeah, if this guy will get better because of banning me, do it.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: ReactOS and QubesOS

Post by dizt3mp3r »

If we banned everyone for being an idiot then this would be a very quiet forum. We are all guilty of posting something daft from time to time. :)

However, I do get what you mean about some of Val's posts, I think they are of the 'flame'-type designed to instigate a dramatic response. Probably best to ignore or to respond technically with a post that reflects reality rather than extreme opinion as does Val.

If Val does continue stirring things up and using 'bad' language - worry not, he will be banned.
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