I Really Want to See Success...But..

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milon
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by milon »

You could even start a new thread first to see who wants to contribute how much, then go make a bounty for the total amount, and of course post a link to it on the forums. The bigger the reward, the more likely someone will be able to put aside their IRL work to tackle the bounty.
ROCKNROLLKID
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by ROCKNROLLKID »

Bountysource is pretty small, to be honest. You might want to try something bigger, like Freelancer https://www.freelancer.com

Honestly, does ReactOS even have a coordinator or a lead developer? At least, I have never seen any kind of direction ReactOS is pointing towards, just seems like anyone does anything with it type thing.

If you want to talk to the developers, you would be better off going to the ReactOS IRC and speaking with one there https://www.reactos.org/irc
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by dizt3mp3r »

ROCKNROLLKID wrote:Honestly, does ReactOS even have a coordinator or a lead developer? At least, I have never seen any kind of direction ReactOS is pointing towards, just seems like anyone does anything with it type thing.
As for almost all open source projects people work on what they want to work on, what interests them and no amount of co-ordination will really affect that. Successful open source teams are not forced down certain paths by sheer force of will, they always have a clearly defined aim, that is the direction you are looking for and in this case it is a clear technical one.

That aim is defined and ReactOS is making progress toward that goal. If you are unaware of the goal that is strange as you have been around a bit and you should be aware that Windows 2003 driver, application and interface compatibility is the current goal. All bug fixes, new code toward that goal is progress and I can assure you that all current progress is in that direction.

If you want progress in a particular direction you either provide it or sponsor it.
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by ROCKNROLLKID »

dizt3mp3r wrote:
ROCKNROLLKID wrote:Honestly, does ReactOS even have a coordinator or a lead developer? At least, I have never seen any kind of direction ReactOS is pointing towards, just seems like anyone does anything with it type thing.
As for almost all open source projects people work on what they want to work on, what interests them and no amount of co-ordination will really affect that. Successful open source teams are not forced down certain paths by sheer force of will, they always have a clearly defined aim, that is the direction you are looking for and in this case it is a clear technical one.

That aim is defined and ReactOS is making progress toward that goal. If you are unaware of the goal that is strange as you have been around a bit and you should be aware that Windows 2003 driver, application and interface compatibility is the current goal. All bug fixes, new code toward that goal is progress and I can assure you that all current progress is in that direction.

If you want progress in a particular direction you either provide it or sponsor it.
You are right dizt, of course, but I didn't mean for what I said to be a insult to ReactOS or anything.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by dizt3mp3r »

ROCKNROLLKID wrote:t I didn't mean for what I said to be a insult to ReactOS or anything.
That's OK. Your comment was worth expounding upon.

Some open source projects have had strict direction placed upon them by a ruling team, a 'junta'. That is what happened with Joomla the open source and previously successful CMS. They chose an approach and headed for it and focussed all efforts in that direction. Each time they did this they chose a technical path (being techies) and led the project in that technical direction. Unfortunately, the technical direction was that was deemed important to the technically minded (structural overhaul) and not to the end users who loved the original version and who just wanted user enhancements. That project (with a clear technical lead and direction) has ended up alienating many millions of current users, lost its leading position as the CMS of choice, has spent years introducing functionality that no end user really cares about whilst the other less-advanced CMS have taken over Joomla's industry-leading position. The development teams are dysfunctional, fractious and the discussions on the IRC channels can be vicious.

Sometimes it is better to have no direct control on what is to be developed next as it can stifle progress from those that disagree. People leave the team, they cannot contribute on what they enjoy most as it is not a valued contribution. The good approach about the laissez-faire attitude that the ReactOS devs have is that everyone works to the same technical goal as each person understands and appreciates it without having to be told what to do. The project co-ordinator sets the standards and the team follows those standards. The goal is achieved naturally at a natural speed by those contributing.

ReactOS compatibility with Windows 2003 is an easy goal to understand, the devs have a huge job to achieve it.

Here is your project coordinator Aleksey Bragin - https://www.youtube.com/user/alekseyros/videos
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tverweij
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by tverweij »

I follow this thread now for the last week and want to add some of my thoughts.

First: this board is called: General discussion and feedback
If the developers and ReactOS team are not reading then the phrase "and feedback" should be removed.

Next some reactions on the statements of the original poster.
There is nothing more that I would like to see in the IT world than to see ReactOS succeed to the point it can completely replace Windows. The problem I see with this project is that it just seems like there is so much work it almost seems insurmountable. I have been watching this project for years hoping it would get to the point where 90% of Windows programs will run and it just seems like it has so far to go. Maybe I am looking at this wrong.
The same is true for me; I am watching reactOS now for 9 years. And I don't see how it will ever become a working platform as long as every developer does what he likes instead of what is needed. I am a .Net developer myself and I do not think that I would ever ship working software if I only did what I like to do - 90% of the time I am working on the things that are needed - if I like it or not. And don't get me wrong; I would develop for reactOS if I had the skills for that.
Don't get me wrong as I am 100% behind the idea of this project. I love the idea and hope to one day see this OS run all Windows programs but how long realistically until this OS can run almost everything just like Windows? Will that ever happen?
No, I do not think (anymore) that will ever happen.

Reasons:
- there is no roadmap, so nobody knows where the project is supposed to go.
- there is a forum, but nobody's listening to the input.
- if I check the "Epic wins": all I see is games - nice, but you should build (or buy) an X-Box or Nintendo (the Office 2010 support: that was an epic win!).

And last, one tip (if anyone that matters for the reactOS development reads this):
Microsoft suffered from lots of blue screens in the past. To solve this, they developed the automatic feedback.
And they found out that they only had to fix the top 10% of errors to eliminate 90% of the occurring problems.
So my tip is: implement automatic feedback of errors and blue screens in reactOS - and see what has to be fixed or added first based on how often an error occurs.

Regards,
Theo
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Feedback received. We get lots of feedback. If the feedback is unique and relevant it will be fed back to the devs I assure you.

The project has direction as explained - You just don't like the progress. We get that feedback. Many feel the same but that isn't going to change no matter how much you rail against it.

However, the tip is appreciated and that sort of thing may be useful in the future, the current job is to get ReactOS into a usable state so that beta user testing can start. ReactOS is not ready for that. ReactOS is still in alpha and although good progress is being made it will be a while before that can start
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tverweij
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by tverweij »

Point taken - Offer withdrawn.

Won't waste my time on this hobby project anymore.

Please delete my profile.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by dizt3mp3r »

I think we have understood you from the beginning. Watch Harry Potter and see the different characters, there are positive ones and negative ones, there are also the dementors, those that seem to like sucking the life from a project.

i. Find a way of attracting competent devs that are familiar with o/s development, specifically Windows/.
ii. Encourage others that want to become competent to look at bugs and perhaps suggest soutions/code.
iii. Give a bounty for specific functionality that you want.
iv. Donate
v. Encourage others to donate
vi. Publicise ReactOS

And remain positive!

My suggestion to create a bounty was the right direction. Once you had done that, if you had been prepared to do that - then progress might be made. Until the bounty was seriously committed no offer actually existed, it is just a nice idea being discussed on a forum.

This project will always be contributed to by volunteers, nothing will change that. More direction can be applied by paid development (bounty) as and when those funds become available. Commit the funds and see what happens.

PS. With regard to the games in the epic win thread, you are missing the point. Games are good stress-testers and can really put a hard load on software/hardware. I have used Quake I to test fault-tolerant systems as it put a load on the whole system including the o/s. Once again you are mistaking your own desires not currently matching the capabilities of ReactOS. Those games prove that large parts of ReactOS are working well. That's a positive.

PPS. The forum is an active place where all posts are responded to, the community is active, development progresses daily. This is a positive place!
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Konata
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by Konata »

tverweij wrote:Point taken - Offer withdrawn.

Won't waste my time on this hobby project anymore.

Please delete my profile.
You're that same guy who was here a few months ago who was super impatient while lying about following the project for nearly a decade before asking for their profile to be deleted, aren't you?
val
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by val »

tverweij wrote:Point taken - Offer withdrawn.

Won't waste my time on this hobby project anymore.

Please delete my profile.
don't get why you would expect from a non-commercial project be something else. as an ordinary user you just use Windows and be happy. never ever something both complex as OS is and "free", read developed in free times as a hobby, will give the same as a corporate product. and linux is an example - it's mediocre but free.
projects like this are mostly for being involved into them - for developers loving doing this stuff, for activists enjoying participation in something collaborative. believing in some ideas... for investors willing to throw some dough at the project. ordinary users expecting to get everything out of the box working, will have hard times with this kind of projects. isn't that that obvious?

as of feedback, people that write ReactOS probably don't have time to hang out here. when you do your work, are you having time to monitor a site, reading through all that garbage that only distracts you? probably no. as a result, all you get as a "feedback" is useless grammar corrections from dizt3mp3r, that is not a developer of this project nor is usefull for it. but don't even think to say to him something in response, he is kind of a Sacred Cow here, you will get banned immediately after he starts crying you offended him. no matter you didn't say to him anything bad, and it's he who used common offending words towards you. That will be the whole "feedback", yup.
And it all should be expected by you - there is no goodies for free. wanna play with this as an experimenting only - do it, get involved, wanna have a working machine - go and use the product ready for this.
oldman
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by oldman »

tverweij wrote:Point taken - Offer withdrawn.

Won't waste my time on this hobby project anymore.

Please delete my profile.
Please do not take this attitude; dizt3mp3r is only one person, who expresses his thoughts, sometimes very aggressively!

I have been around reactos.org for many years (15 - 17) now. I am now getting old and I have been wondering if I will ever live to see ReactOS in a useable state! Should I then follow you out of the door, because it is taking too long to mature into an everyday operating system?

I have done a fair amount of testing and bug reporting, I have even written a Layman's guide, to help the less technical (like myself); is it all in vain?

If you have no spare time to help or are not inclined to help, then just watch and wait; but please do not leave in an huff!
Please keep the Windows classic 9x/2000 look and feel.
The layman's guides - debugging - bug reporting - compiling - ISO remaster.
They may help you with a problem, so do have a look at them.
tverweij
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by tverweij »

@oldman

dizt3mp3r has succeeded to convince me that reactOS will fail (may be ever, when nobody even remembers Windows 2003, reactOS will become usable).
He tells me I have to give a bounty using third party sites - that means that there is absolutely no organization whatsoever within the reactOS project.
He tells me that the project is based on anarchy (everyone does what he wants).
He tells me that the users are unimportant - only the things that the developers like will be build or fixed)

This is all the very opposite of what I learned of successful software development (I am only in the business for the last 30 years ...)
So that is why I give up on reactOS.
If it won't get structured - a roadmap, userinput (maybe votes on subjects?), project management - it won't be finished ever.

I will keep monitoring reactOS - but I won't give it any credit anymore until the project changes to a more professional state.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by dizt3mp3r »

oldman wrote: Please do not take this attitude; dizt3mp3r is only one person, who expresses his thoughts, sometimes very aggressively!
I do not express myself aggressively - I simply state it how it is - and I do it clearly and as concisely as I can. I find that many people imbue words with their own personal feelings at the time they read them. If you feel obliged to be agreed with all the time - then you'll read anything that opposes that as a personal affront. The truth is that ReactOS simply won't grow at your own personal expectations unless you adjust your expectations downward. If you can't handle this then that is your own personal problem. My comments are always aimed to protect ReactOS and reflect reality.

The truth is often at variance with personal expectations. Many, many come here wanting ReactOS now and feel offended when ReactOS does not do what they want it to do. Generation Now?

If the chap wanted the work seriously then he had the chance to create a bounty. He was never going to do that. He couldn't be bothered, I am fairly sure of that. He just wanted to rail against the ReactOS team not listening to him on this forum even when stated that they do not come here often. As I suggested from the beginning he should have raised a bounty. He can still do that. Nothing is stopping him.
He tells me I have to give a bounty using third party sites
- I didn't tell you that, I suggested one route.
that means that there is absolutely no organization whatsoever within the reactOS project.
- your conclusion not mine. I tried to explain to you who the project co-ordinator is.
He tells me that the project is based on anarchy (everyone does what he wants).
- your conclusion, I stated how most open source projects typically work. ReactOS is an open source project and is not so different.
He tells me that the users are unimportant
- your conclusion not mine. There are no users of ReactOS at the moment as it is in Alpha stage, only testers at this stage.

As for Val - he is a proven troll and very lucky to be tolerated as much as he is. Val, please do keep your negative comments to yourself and be constructive. When you are constructive you are appreciated here. - addendum - I never read them as they are designed to inflame.

@tverweij - nice to see you back again - perhaps this time rather than letting me convince you of anything, engage your own thought processes and make your own decision as to what you want to do. If you want the functionality you express an interest in then I suggested a method. Take the method suggested or not, it is not up to me. It is merely a suggestion. Choose your own route.

Edited to answer tverweij's specific statements.
Last edited by dizt3mp3r on Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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tverweij
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Re: I Really Want to See Success...But..

Post by tverweij »

You're that same guy who was here a few months ago who was super impatient while lying about following the project for nearly a decade before asking for their profile to be deleted, aren't you?
I do not know what you are pointing too ...
About the time I follow reactOS: you can see when I became a member of this forum ....
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