Can you help me understand ...

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Ancient
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:32 pm

Can you help me understand ...

Post by Ancient » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm

It may be me, but after trying ReactOS, I set up a Linux Mint with Windows style GUI (available easily from Mint's website), then installed Proton (the Steam Valve variant of Wine).

Overall the combination of Mint with Proton seems to run most Windows programs well.

What is the benefit, or eventual benefit if not immediate, that ReactOS will offer me over my current situation? What can or will ReactOS be able to do that Mint / Proton can't?

Thanks

Adcock
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:37 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Adcock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:41 pm

If you break your PC then it's easy to reinstall windows.
ReactOS is here to do just that.
ReactOS would run Windows programs with maximum performance possible.
It's a Windows itself. [Don't tell Microsoft]
Windows is very stable and consistent for doing a lot of things.
Specially less technical people find it easy. [This one might be irrelevant since you already know how to use Linux]
With full compatibality ReactOS will theoretically be able to run any windows software. [conditions applicable]

All of that is my personal opinion.
ReactOS project or Developers are not in any way responsible for those above words.

justincase
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by justincase » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:54 pm

Ancient wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm
What is the benefit, or eventual benefit if not immediate, that ReactOS will offer me over my current situation?
Whether these do or do not affect you personally, I can't tell, but two of the biggest differences are...
  • ReactOS will function just like Windows, so users who are used to Windows won't have to learn how to use Linux.
  • Compatibility with Windows software & drivers is native to ReactOS, so users won't have to install Wine/Crossover/PlayOnLinux/Proton to be able to use Windows software, they'll be able to simply run the software (or its installer) directly, exactly as they would have if they were on Windows.
Ancient wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm
What can or will ReactOS be able to do that Mint / Proton can't?
Use Windows drivers to communicate with hardware that doesn't have Linux drivers.
Note: This portion of things is still rather buggy, but it will eventually be one of the biggest differences for end-users.
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

Julcar
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:19 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Julcar » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:51 pm

Ancient wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm
It may be me, but after trying ReactOS, I set up a Linux Mint with Windows style GUI (available easily from Mint's website), then installed Proton (the Steam Valve variant of Wine).

Overall the combination of Mint with Proton seems to run most Windows programs well.

What is the benefit, or eventual benefit if not immediate, that ReactOS will offer me over my current situation? What can or will ReactOS be able to do that Mint / Proton can't?

Thanks
Apologize me, but you are very clear what are you using: a linux distro with windows appearance and a service that provides compatibility with windows programs you are not using windows it self, there is no binary support beyond from the wine container, and millions of hardware don't provide drivers for linux, ReactOS is in the present already a valid windows replacement, and it provides full binary compatibility with native drivers, there is no need to using wine, because wine's dlls are integrated on the system.

justincase
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by justincase » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:32 pm

Julcar wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:51 pm
ReactOS is in the present already a valid windows replacement, and it provides full binary compatibility with native drivers
ReactOS has come a long way, but is still considered to be in "Alpha" state, due to the continuing existence of many bugs and incompatibilities, especially in the area of Windows drivers.
For instance, Vadim Galyant (vgal/vgalnt) has created a branch of ReactOS which you can see (download and build) on a fork of ReactOS' GitHub repository which allows the system to (finally) boot with a number of drivers copied from Windows Server 2003, however, this branch is unable to boot when using ReactOS' own versions of these drivers. I believe this demonstrates quite well that while we're certainly getting close, ReactOS is still definitively not providing 'full binary compatibility with native Windows drivers' ... yet.

As to whether of not ReactOS is "already a valid windows replacement", that depends on your use-case. If you want your system to be stable, and not occasionally have memory, file system and/or registry corruptions, you're still far better off using Windows, as these sorts of errors occur still occur far more frequently with ReactOS than Windows. However I don't believe that this will always be the case, especially with the way Microsoft has been pushing Windows development for the past few years.
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

Julcar
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:19 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Julcar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:15 am

justincase wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:32 pm
Julcar wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:51 pm
ReactOS is in the present already a valid windows replacement, and it provides full binary compatibility with native drivers
ReactOS has come a long way, but is still considered to be in "Alpha" state, due to the continuing existence of many bugs and incompatibilities, especially in the area of Windows drivers.
For instance, Vadim Galyant (vgal/vgalnt) has created a branch of ReactOS which you can see (download and build) on a fork of ReactOS' GitHub repository which allows the system to (finally) boot with a number of drivers copied from Windows Server 2003, however, this branch is unable to boot when using ReactOS' own versions of these drivers. I believe this demonstrates quite well that while we're certainly getting close, ReactOS is still definitively not providing 'full binary compatibility with native Windows drivers' ... yet.

As to whether of not ReactOS is "already a valid windows replacement", that depends on your use-case. If you want your system to be stable, and not occasionally have memory, file system and/or registry corruptions, you're still far better off using Windows, as these sorts of errors occur still occur far more frequently with ReactOS than Windows. However I don't believe that this will always be the case, especially with the way Microsoft has been pushing Windows development for the past few years.
Well, for some tasks I've tested, it is no more in "alpha" stage, for example, running a small website in reactos as web server works without troubles (I tested having a load of 1200 users online and it supported the memory load)

Ancient
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:32 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Ancient » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:30 am

justincase wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:32 pm
As to whether of not ReactOS is "already a valid windows replacement", that depends on your use-case. If you want your system to be stable, and not occasionally have memory, file system and/or registry corruptions, you're still far better off using Windows, as these sorts of errors occur still occur far more frequently with ReactOS than Windows.
If you don't mind, here is my case. Currently running a circa 2010 Intel I7 950 CPU and support chipset, 12 GB RAM, 100 GB DVD RW RAM drive, Ethernet, NVidia 1050 with 4GB GDDR, 2 TB SSD, output to Sony Android TV 4K mostly as 1080P. In the next year, release permitting, a new PC will be built with Zyzen 16 core 32 hypterthread, 16GB to 32GB of RAM, NAVI probably 12GB or 16GB video RAM, same 2 TB drive, same DVD RAM drive, same Ethernet but on new motherboard. My understanding is AMD adds support to Linux for it's CPU chipsets and video cards.

My expectation is Mint / Proton will support the new hardware, the old hardware is already supported. My only need for Windows at this time is to play Black Desert Online, which requires some hooks into Windows that are not supported by Proton or WINE. Black Desert Online does not appear to work with ReactOS either. This is likely the fault of the developers who are attempting to limit hacking their game.

I used to hook an Arduino based 3D printer to my PC, and was able to do it under Windows or Mint, but now use a Raspberry Pi to manage firmware updates via Ethernet and a web interface. Mostly as I now have 2 3D printers and it is easier to just use the web interface and a couple of webcams. My REO LINK external Ethernet cameras for house surveillance are not supported directly via Windows (they require running either REO Link software, paid 3rd party software, or a browser with Adobe Flash enabled). My cameras are detectable and do operate via Linux Mint without issue. Not certain why Windows can't discover or view them.

To the best of my understanding, it is unlikely ReactOS will support newer video and CPU chipsets from AMD, and it is unlikely ReactOS will support more than 4 GB of RAM, or more than 1 CPU.

karlexceed
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:17 pm
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Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by karlexceed » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:21 am

Ancient wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:30 am
new PC will be built with Zyzen 16 core 32 hypterthread, 16GB to 32GB of RAM
ReactOS won't likely have support for the latest high-end hardware for a long while.
Ancient wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:30 am
My only need for Windows at this time is to play Black Desert Online
Your primary use case seems to be gaming. ReactOS isn't yet really stable for this.
Ancient wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:30 am
it is unlikely ReactOS will support newer video and CPU chipsets from AMD, and it is unlikely ReactOS will support more than 4 GB of RAM, or more than 1 CPU.
...by version 1.0, this is probably mostly correct. But not forever.

ThFabba
Developer
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:39 am

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by ThFabba » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:46 am

Julcar wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:15 am
Well, for some tasks I've tested, it is no more in "alpha" stage, for example, running a small website in reactos as web server works without troubles (I tested having a load of 1200 users online and it supported the memory load)
I strongly disagree with your assessment. "It works for limited testing of this use case" is far from "production ready" or even "beta quality".

ReactOS does not handle memory exhaustion well -- so a denial of service attack is easily possible and will bring your "server" system down.
Whenever your system crashes, there is a high likelihood of data loss, so you may require an OS reinstall, may have to restore your hosted content, and are likely to lose any user-provided data.
ReactOS is guaranteed to have numerous remotely exploitable security vulnerabilities of the worst kind -- so anyone who wants an easy entrance into your network will have a good time. We do not even try to work around CPU bugs like Spectre and Meltdown, so even simply browsing the web is going to be dangerous.
Add to that that we do not provide a good update path for the system (you basically have to reinstall), and that updates quite often introduce regressions.

ReactOS remains alpha-quality software. Exposing it to the public internet as a server (and probably even as a client) is a terrible security choice and should only be done in properly isolated and secured test setups, if at all.

Ancient
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:32 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Ancient » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:36 pm

karlexceed wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:21 am
Your primary use case seems to be gaming. ReactOS isn't yet really stable for this.
Not exactly, but my kids are good at video games and prefer a decent graphics card when visiting.

Is it a concern to anyone here that open source support is provided by AMD for it's products when running Linux, but not for Windows? My guess is AMD is unaware ReactOS would benefit from open source Windows drivers and thus doesn't make them available. Has anyone in development here reached out to AMD? Having open source support for a decade or two of support chipsets and video cards would't exactly harm ReactOS, would it?

Zombiedeth
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:01 am

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Zombiedeth » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Ancient wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:36 pm
karlexceed wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:21 am
Your primary use case seems to be gaming. ReactOS isn't yet really stable for this.
Not exactly, but my kids are good at video games and prefer a decent graphics card when visiting.

Is it a concern to anyone here that open source support is provided by AMD for it's products when running Linux, but not for Windows? My guess is AMD is unaware ReactOS would benefit from open source Windows drivers and thus doesn't make them available. Has anyone in development here reached out to AMD? Having open source support for a decade or two of support chipsets and video cards would't exactly harm ReactOS, would it?
There have been rumors that AMD ported there Gallium 3d driver to windows as an internal experiment but very limited details on this. I very much doubt it was XP/2003 compatible though, but even if it was there are still many areas of ReactOS that are not ready for gaming.

Ancient
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:32 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Ancient » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:04 pm

We can hope eventually AMD will release open source for it's various chipsets. Today AMD doesn't really do much 32 bit. Whatever source was released would have to be compiled into 32 bit. However if done, this could make it a lot easier to run ReactOS on entire classes of PC's and laptops. A summer of Google where AMD Windows drivers were compiled as ReactOS drivers could help a lot with ReactOS running on real hardware.

Julcar
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:19 pm

Re: Can you help me understand ...

Post by Julcar » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:05 am

ThFabba wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:46 am
ReactOS does not handle memory exhaustion well -- so a denial of service attack is easily possible and will bring your "server" system down.
Whenever your system crashes, there is a high likelihood of data loss, so you may require an OS reinstall, may have to restore your hosted content, and are likely to lose any user-provided data.
ReactOS is guaranteed to have numerous remotely exploitable security vulnerabilities of the worst kind -- so anyone who wants an easy entrance into your network will have a good time. We do not even try to work around CPU bugs like Spectre and Meltdown, so even simply browsing the web is going to be dangerous.
Add to that that we do not provide a good update path for the system (you basically have to reinstall), and that updates quite often introduce regressions.

ReactOS remains alpha-quality software. Exposing it to the public internet as a server (and probably even as a client) is a terrible security choice and should only be done in properly isolated and secured test setups, if at all.
Well, I think these are good points to start to think in security terms for preparing ReactOS to be able to browse the network

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