.net subsystem

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Do you think .net support is a good idea

yes
29
76%
no
9
24%
 
Total votes: 38

disks86
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.net subsystem

Post by disks86 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:23 pm

I would like to see react os strive for .net compatibility. I believe .net is the future of general purpose /game programming. I know that .net programs are different than a binary programs because they are compiled on the fly and require a compiler instead of just an API. This said the mono project is doing really well with compatibility from what I hear. I happen to be a visual basic .net programmer and if you add .net support I would be happy to write apps for this OS
Talk is cheap. Show me the code. - Linus Torvalds

EmuandCo
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Post by EmuandCo » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:30 am

.net sucks and no game programmer will ever use it. It's slow and unstable. Take a look at the Control Center from ATI for example. It's even choppy on my 3000+ I'm interested in ReactOS because they don't like things on Micro§oft which I hate, too and .net is one of those things. But I'm for adding compatibility, too, because there are some "programmers" using this crap and of course we don't want compatibility problems with it. I hope this wasn't too hard.

P.S. disk86: The last good VB Language was VB 6.0 and VB .net is a GREAT step back. Btw Try to learn C(++)

TiKu
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Post by TiKu » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:06 am

*lol* You don't seem to know .net. Yes there're some disadvantages, but saying VB6 would be better than VB.net is just too funny.

Marty
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Post by Marty » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:15 am

Emu&Co wrote:It's slow and unstable. Take a look at the Control Center from ATI for example. It's even choppy on my 3000+
All this proves is that ATI isn't particularly competent at developing .NET applications. Having spent the past two years writing enterprise-level VoIP software in C#, I tend to disagree that it's 'slow and unstable'.

Now with regards to the original question, I agree that being able to run .NET applications on ReactOS would be a desirable goal.

e7
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Post by e7 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:54 pm

Everyone who needs .net-Support can install the .net-Runtime or Mono for himself, ReactOS is/will be Windows-compatible...

disks86
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slow

Post by disks86 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:27 am

Visual basic .net is not unstable or slow by any means it includes things like
1. garbage collector (to prevent memory leaks)
2. ctype converters (to prevent narrowing conversion errors)
3. structured error handling (to allow for more useful error handling)
4. built in multithreading control as well as multithreaded GUI
(to improve speed marginally on single processor and a noticeable amount on multiple and or hyper threaded processors)
5. Oh and as far as game programmers not touching it there are projects in the works already that use Managed Directx or Open GL
I happen to be writing a rpg in visual basic .net and I wanted it to run on Mac os X , Linux and react os as well as windows computers

I know the comment was directed at the .net framework in general but I have personal experience with visual basic .net . I would assume c# and c++ .net have similar functions. As far as making people download the .net framework mono will have more features if they continue at there current speed also I believe that making users install mono or the .net framework would be a hassle for the average user and would keep them from switching to react os

so for a minute forget that this is a microsoft technology and look at it for what it is the .net framework is a wonderful API.

ps. as far as ATI they probly loaded the program down with try,catch and throw error handling which if over used will slow your program down building sanity checks into your functions and subs is always better
Talk is cheap. Show me the code. - Linus Torvalds

forart
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NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Post by forart » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:46 am

Mono Instead !!!

http://www.mono-project.com/ 8)
»Forward Agency NPO
In progress we (always) trust.

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:16 pm

Dotnet C# are nice and easy langues to use.
But it as some disadvansing lige it can not run hevy applaction well with out req alot of memmory and cpu power. For create gui applaction is great tools. Dotnet has both good and bad side effect.

It will be more apps in futer that need dotnet framework.

But we have talk about using go-mono as dotnet framework in reactos.

chorns
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Slow?

Post by chorns » Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:25 pm

I don't consider a 10% slowdown running Quake2 compared to native Quake2 a big disadvantage. The advantages of .NET far outweigh its disadvantages for most applications.

In 2006, I plan to integrate Mono into ReactOS as well as .NET is integrated into Windows.

Casper

cyborg
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Post by cyborg » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:03 am

AFAIK dotnet is semi interpreted (bytecode like java is) and locally compiled in some sort of way, however just because i dont really know, how it works, i have to use a lot of 'em

what I saw was, dotnet is pretty small in exe size, pretty much is simply swept over to the API which has positive sideffects: little applications dont make that much failures in code - and negative sideffects: bugs in applications often relay on bugs in dotnet.

however the positive sideffect just sounds good.
i saw, that dotnet is used by a lot of newcomer-programmers - and most of the applications i run, were nice but so bloated with bugs, i couldnt stop slapping them.

also dotnet is not really something which is needed. because ms dont tend to make it platform independent. mostly, its just a "modern trend". i dont see much new technology behind .net

server applications written in dotnet arent better, than native ones. they arent portable as java ones. also test results showed us, that the "benefits" from dotnet over java in server technology was beaten simply by not using windows for java. java on linux is better than a windows server with dotnet. so we thought. of course, the server apps werent equal, they just did the same thing. (tested it with UO servers)

well and just about visual basic, visual basic wont get better, no matter how you use it.

I think, dotnet is not that important for now. If windows equality is achieved by ReactOS, you can try to install MS dotnet. I think it should work then. If not, I think mono will be adapted soon, if reactos is usable for other things.

I wouldnt concentrate on that. just make reactos usable for work, play and surf. then there will be hell of devels trying to do such stuff.

cyborg
Posts: 22
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Re: Slow?

Post by cyborg » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:06 am

chorns wrote:I don't consider a 10% slowdown running Quake2 compared to native Quake2 a big disadvantage. The advantages of .NET far outweigh its disadvantages for most applications.

In 2006, I plan to integrate Mono into ReactOS as well as .NET is integrated into Windows.

Casper
10% on which machine? of course, on a 200 MHz PEntium 10% means nearly nothing (20 MHz) but on a high end machine developers often use, which fast RAM, fast disks, big pipes and many Gigahertz'es 10% is quite a lot.
10% is what Windows needs for me if it simply runs and is connected to the internet, running an emailclient, antivirus and firewall.
10% is 10% too much, because on linux it only needs 4% for same tasks.

Last but not least, 10% measured how? 10% simply running a demo, or 10% while playing online with 31 other players?

its just 5 frames for me which warcraft 3 is slower on linux. 5 frames, but this 5 frames grow e^x into hell of a lot, if i play a 8v8 match on battlenet.

disks86
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percent?

Post by disks86 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:15 am

I don't believe that the overhead can be measured in a percent.
That would mean that the the apps would use more resources the better the system and that is simply not true. I ran a vb.net program I wrote on a pentium 133mhz with 64mb of ram and it runs fine. That same program uses the same amount of resources on my AMD 2100 with 512mb of ram however it runs faster. and as far as java being better than .net !NOT EVEN!! if you have used bolth you would know that .net is better however I would agree that linux is a better server and that is likely how you came up with the idea that java is better oh and vb.net , c# and even c++ .net are compiled in memory by the Just In Time compiler unless they are precompiled. I don't know if this is possible with c# and vb.net but c++ .net can be compiled into native code. Also We should work on .net/mono compatibility as soon as the OS can ficilitate it. Dotnet will grow in popularity and if we start working on it then we can ride the popularity train so to speak. This would not only be handy for PR but having compatibility with next generation programs is the earmark of a good os
Talk is cheap. Show me the code. - Linus Torvalds

EmuandCo
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Post by EmuandCo » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:42 am

c# and vb.net can't do native code, only Just In Time compiling.

Nicram
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Post by Nicram » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:44 am

Because many software writers will use it React must support .NET framework . ATI CC isn't good example here, ATI is corp that can crash everything. But Matrox Graphics Inc. use .NET for writing own drivers (config panel) too & it's working perfectly & it is not crashing (Model Parhelia & similar on same chip). The one disadventage of .NET is any app that running with those libraries takes many MB of RAM (because whole .NET must be loaded too).

TiKu
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Post by TiKu » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:49 pm

Emu&Co wrote:c# and vb.net can't do native code, only Just In Time compiling.
Yes and no. There comes a tool along with Visual Studio which can compile an assembly into native code. It does what otherwise would be done just in time.

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