best way recover reactos debate

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What methord is best methord to recover a system?

Poll ended at Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:44 am

Graphical
13
54%
Command line
11
46%
 
Total votes: 24

cmoibenlepro
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by cmoibenlepro » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:28 pm

why not both?

Delfi
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:45 pm

Post by Delfi » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:29 pm

excuse me, but can reactos make an offical statement to keep linux similarities out of it? sure you would get a lot of linux fans with linux-like abilities, but you should have to develop linux reactos tools separately from ROS.

oiaohm
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:40 am

Post by oiaohm » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:35 am

This is about recovery will or will not provide.

I think you are wrong in one regard most Linux ablities are Posix abilites. So if Posix support is there to make sure it develops to be compad with other Posix systems (Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD...). Yep Windows NT is a Posix compad system with the posix extention. Linux personal are in one regard a requirement. Some from FreeBSD and Mac OS X would be nice as well.

Just to compare compad. Basicly the command line on Posix class systems these days is bash even Microsoft Posix layor for Windows XP. Just I really see not point in provided a extra commandline type then not providing it to the user.

Control panel is integrated with explorer and cannot be run with different credentials. Hmm are you sure that you cannot force the issue with runas and split intergration.(ever wonder why there was a windows 2000 mode)
These are windows limits not reactos limits of what reactos can do.

Windows Search sux's it has lacks options and has internal problems heck is fun to watch with a debuging program .

Knoppix graphical can set ip it part of networking please note you can change you set ip at runtime. And the command line tool is ifconfig(yes I know its stupid) man ifconfig will tell you how to use it. I really recommend the graphical. I think the graphical is under system config in the menu called network. Depending on version of Knoppix some older versions require network cable unpluged while system starts up so dhcp does not waste a lot of time looking.

Tab option was done first on by either Gnome or Kde.

Faster does not always mean better.

Posix systems search command line search is wraped to create a lot of the gui search in linux. Its called find. Its lovely you would not use dir that way again. find . -iname "fox*" Search all directorys and return any file starting with the three letters fox in any case.

Basicly windows command line lacks power and tools to be any where useful to people who have used Posix systems command line.

How can I put this without upseting to many people.

The windows command line drives people like me nuts because I go to use a normal command and it is not there and by default there is not a thing equal. find wget.

But I have heavy command line trained I can use the windows command line just really really hate it due to lacking features and having to type to much.

Graphical is far more common for me these days and well built graphical is simpler for user. Not every user will know how to use the command line in alot of cases to perform there tasks on the machine they will never need to use it unless it stuffs up. They will have a verry low commandline skill. Its nice fun asking users how to change directory from the command line and getting the responce just click on it or what is a directory since they call them folders.(good when I need a laugh)

I would not say remove the command line completely it has its place. But some major questions will have to be asked about is lack of features. I can see this being filled with posix stuff to bring it up to exceptable.

Searching from command line
Better scripting.
Shorter commands.
Tab complete ie type only the first chars and press tab either list all the files starting with the chars or if only one file matchs complete.
Ie windows commandline is horible at this steping throw every file stating with the same letter.
Even tab complete of programs that you can run from the command line. Nothing on the command line use tab complete get all command that you can run. Nice when you forget a command.
Able to edit command lines by using the left and right arrows to move along the line and inserting chars.

Are you still wondering why I want a posix style command line the list above is basicly standard features for Mac OS X Linux BSD and Unix command lines..

chris319
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:43 pm

Post by chris319 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:03 am

I ask this question purely from a naive stance: If all of these Bash tools are so wonderful, has someone not already written DOS- or Windows-compatible versions of them?

oiaohm
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:40 am

Post by oiaohm » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:00 am

Yep they exist chris319 normal for a dos users not to realize due to not knowning and not realizing to look.

Microsoft provide bash and some tools(include gcc) for windows NT series as part of the posix section. If you have the addon and if you have installed it.
cygwin provides all the tools and more
mingw provide some from there site as part of msys.
djgpp provides some them for 32 bit processors under dos with problems with bash. Problem bash is not like most doses in one major regard. It lets processes and process switching yep its multitasking. Dos does not like this.
pw32 provides some has not been updated since 2000.

I have most likely missed a few.

It all depends where you draw a line in the sand. find is with most if not all above bash is with all above.

Yep there kinda coming out the ears. Most of these depend on some kind of independent core lib or workaround. With a posix core really they should use that.

Current bash is IEEE POSIX P1003.2/ISO 9945.2 complient in POSIX mode. Yes they do define the command line and how it should work and bash breaks the rules in a few places. Kinda a standard part if you want to be POSIX compad. Note Windows NT was.

bash is most dominate command line in posix systems. But posix systems are ment to take mult command line types tcsh csh ksh... So command like cp mv rm find are independant programs not built into bash. So these installed can provide commands back to the windows command line. Nice attempt might be porting bash and busybox to reactos posix. busybox provides most of the standard commands. It is at least worth a look at the posix command line even if all your goal is to take parts to improve the reactos command line.

The advantage of open source you are able to take the best.

Jaix
Moderator Team
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:40 pm
Location: Sweden, Växjö

Re: KISS: recovery should be done w/o environment subsystems

Post by Jaix » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:05 am

ea wrote:Hi,
this is just a note from a developer. As ROS gets its internals design from NT's (and back from DEC Prism's), you have to keep in mind that high level operating systems (Win32, OS/2, POSIX, VMS...) should be off when you attempt a system recovery. This can be performed easily in ROS (just like in NT). As environment subsystems are run by the Session Manager (SM), what you really need is a bare text shell that is run by the SM before any of them. We could call it a "single user ROS" or a "maintenance mode ROS".
Yes, I agree, but nothing stopps us form making a ReactOS-PE Repair CD just like BartPE and in that way the system that need repairing isn't active at all and can be reaired in any way needed. http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ I even recommend that ReactOS and BartPE makes a united effort to create a totally cool bootable repair CD so the BartPE CD will work even better with a real menu and explorer.

Floyd
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:45 am
Location: The frozen part of the USA

Post by Floyd » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:22 am

BartPE rules! i cannot tell you how many times it has made my job so much easier. i like that it supports both graphical user tools and commandline tools. oftentimes CLI tools are faster but not all 3rd-party tools are available as CLI tools. having the GUI with a prompt is a great way to do it.
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