Something for your lawyers...

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Aeneas
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Something for your lawyers...

Post by Aeneas » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 pm

Look at this:

https://facebook.github.io/react/

Now this "React", with a logo very similar to yours, is practically served on the silver plate. And it belongs to Facebook. You might consider squeezing them for money. This is plainly shameless. Seriously, talk to your lawyers, cases have been won with less. [EDIT: I really think ReactOS is older and what these "React"-people are doing is infringement.]

Hamguy
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Hamguy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:02 pm

Aeneas wrote:Look at this:

https://facebook.github.io/react/

Now this "React", with a logo very similar to yours, is practically served on the silver plate. And it belongs to Facebook. You might consider squeezing them for money. This is plainly shameless. Seriously, talk to your lawyers, cases have been won with less. [EDIT: I really think ReactOS is older and what these "React"-people are doing is infringement.]
I don't think its a good idea to involve lawyers especially when reactos is basically a free windows. No one has a patent on the word React and the Logo is different from reactos. what if they claim reactos is stealing from the symbol for the atom or something then you have unwanted attention from others who think they can sue the project.


PurpleGurl
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by PurpleGurl » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:23 am

Don't forget to tell the Fine Bros. on YouTube... ;-)

Aeneas
Posts: 463
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Aeneas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:44 am

Let me make this plain:

Their reply on the GitHub page is RIDICULOUS, and NATURALLY they would reply that way. Like, what the hell do you think will they say? "Hey, you caught us, we totally infringed your logo and brand"? They act defensive.

And while I am by no means trying to give you "legal advice" - but I am merely leading a friendly discussion here - , and while I fully leave it to the project lead's business-political decision: yes, I am a lawyer, and if ReactOS were "my company", I would sue React's head off! If this were "my company", I would say I have a perfect case here: both React's and ReactOS' logos show an atom with electron orbitals, the name is similar (Why the hell don't they call themselves "Atom" or "Fusion" or "Nuclear" or whatever? Why the hell EXACTLY "React"?)... EDIT: and yes, they ARE operating in IT! It's not like that case where Apple sued a restaurant!

As to the "unwanted attention": shape up already. What does ReactOS have to hide? Guess what: "Ford" also does cars, just like "Mercedes".

Look, you wanted some financing: THIS is an opportunity. React seems to belong to Facebook. You can USE this opportunity, or you can cower forever and hope for the miserable 50-EUR-donations you can scrape off people.

How I would do it, if I were you: talk to your lawyer friends. And find an attorney who would do it, perhaps with a pricing model based on what he "gains". In Germany, it cannot be a straight "quota litis", but what is perfectly possible is to say, "If he loses, he doesn't charge you, if he wins above 1000 EUR, he gets 200, if he wins above 2000 EUR, he gets 400, ... if he wins above 1000000, he gets 200K" (i.e. a "staircase function"). I have seen large law firms doing that.

DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY. - Or forever stop whining how the project is under-financed and needs developers!

dizt3mp3r
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by dizt3mp3r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:49 pm

I'm not sure if funding has anything to do with it - let's park that as it could become quite confrontational and I am sure no-one here really wants that.

However, I do agree with Aeneas that this is an issue especially as ReactOS means to be the defacto open source alternative to Windows in the future. If you have an alternative project with almost the same name and logo and that project has Facebook as a sponsor then it will inevitably lead to some sort of confrontation/conflict/confusion in the future.

https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10849

It would be best to resolve it now.

Fraizeraust
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Fraizeraust » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:28 pm

To be honest, the logo shouldn't really matter that much since you can find lots of projects with nearly similar logo with the atom and electron orbitals. What DOES IT MATTER though is the name because ReactOS and React are indeed confusing and I am concerned about this. Somehow this case needs to be solved.

Perhaps we must contact Aleksey (the coordinator of ReactOS) and report this situation? Maybe he can come up with a solution in mind.

Aeneas
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Aeneas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:15 pm

Absolutely. Do contact Aleksey. I just didn't know his username to PM him together with others about this. In the past, he has shown great effort to defend the interest of the project and to spread its fame, so I am sure he will co-ordinate action suitably, whether it means to initiate legal steps, reach an amicable settlement, or simply do nothing.

oldman
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by oldman » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:35 pm

Aeneas wrote:Absolutely. Do contact Aleksey. I just didn't know his username to PM him together with others about this. In the past, he has shown great effort to defend the interest of the project and to spread its fame, so I am sure he will co-ordinate action suitably, whether it means to initiate legal steps, reach an amicable settlement, or simply do nothing.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by dizt3mp3r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:53 pm

The use of the name React and the atom logo in combination are the issue. The two together clearly show a clear case of copying the ReactOS name and logo whether sub-consciously done or not. One on its own would probably be acceptable but the two together show a clear link between the two projects that really does not exist.

The impression the choice of logo and name gives is that the projects are linked. That impression is what needs to be undone, the impression of a link between the two needs to be broken. That can only be done with a change in logo and/or name. We need to work something out. Glad you chaps are on board (it was me that wrote the piece on github).

Aeneas
Posts: 463
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Aeneas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:32 pm

The problems are going in several directions:

1. if you do not defend a brand, you may forfeit your right to defend it later on;

2. the longer you wait, the easier you get a time bar problem;

3. thank you for telling me that Aleksey is fireball. I PM-ed him, too;

4. German attorneys have sometimes a possibility to send an "Abmahnung", a sort of "cease and desist"-letter, independently of whether they are concerned with a case, in order to defend justice "objectively" - so even if you do nothing, there is no guarantee that someone else will not profit, if he can somehow prosecute them in Germany. Seriously: the project lead should talk with their lawyer friends from Germany and see what they can recommend.

I regard my work here as "done": it is their project, and I am not going to crash their party - it is their decision what to do or not to do. I saw it as my task to raise the awareness for it. - But again... if you can somehow implicate Facebook into this, my advice is, check it out. Even a "peanuts"-settlement for them of a few hundred thousand EUR will still be enough to considerably advance ReactOS. I wish you all good luck, independently of how it is decided to be handled.

dizt3mp3r
Posts: 1425
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by dizt3mp3r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:55 pm

Aeneas I think you did well to point it out.

With regard to points 1 and 2, I agree that something must be done, that is why I wrote my initial starting piece on github. I can foresee a time when ReactOS is forced to change its name and logo - when ReactJS becomes big with Facebook's backing.

As the man said, ReactJS was installed a million times last week and that means that ReactJS is a big threat to ReactOS' credibility especially if it becomes a bigger name in the software world. If we do nothing about the conflict then it will be bad for ReactOS.

Let's hope your involvement is not complete.

Fraizeraust
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Fraizeraust » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:16 pm

gaearon (the guy of React project) has stated his statement as follows:
gaearon wrote:I would love to hear specific suggestions on how we can improve this and arrive at a mutual understanding.
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He also re-opened the report for further discussions. I find it quite an opportunity for us to solve this issue as fast as possible. We cannot miss it.

Adcock
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by Adcock » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:29 pm

What if facebook offers a lot of money as donation to this project and tells you to let go of the name and logo ?
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hbelusca
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Re: Something for your lawyers...

Post by hbelusca » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:13 pm


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